Author Topic: Coach-Referee Conference  (Read 9406 times)

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bcstripes36

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Coach-Referee Conference
« on: November 02, 2014, 02:07:10 PM »
After an OPI call by my wing official and prior to RFP for the succeeding down the coach who the call went against requested a time out for coach-referee conference. He used the conference to complain about the call not to question a rule application. By rule the coach loses his time out.
My question here is does the opponent or either team get the benefit of time out for a 'team conference' or does the time out just get charged?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 02:16:25 PM »
As soon as he engaged in complaining, the coach-referee conference should have ceased and the balance applied as his team time out.  The opponent should have been utilizing the time for their own inside the 9 yl conference.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 03:43:12 PM »
After an OPI call by my wing official and prior to RFP for the succeeding down the coach who the call went against requested a time out for coach-referee conference. He used the conference to complain about the call not to question a rule application. By rule the coach loses his time out.
My question here is does the opponent or either team get the benefit of time out for a 'team conference' or does the time out just get charged?

It may help to understand, ALL requested TOs to review a misapplication of a rule ARE INITIALLY charged to the team asking for the TO.  When there has been a correction, the responsibility for the TO is assumed by the Referee, negating the fact it had been originally charged to a team.

bcstripes36

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 04:06:10 PM »
As soon as he engaged in complaining, the coach-referee conference should have ceased and the balance applied as his team time out.  The opponent should have been utilizing the time for their own inside the 9 yl conference.

Once I reconized the coach just wanted to complain I ceased the conference immediately, the oppent wanted the balance of the minute as if it was a typical charged time out....do they get this time out time?

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 05:20:19 PM »
Once I reconized the coach just wanted to complain I ceased the conference immediately, the oppent wanted the balance of the minute as if it was a typical charged time out....do they get this time out time?
Sure, it's still a charged time out.

Offline backjudge79

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 09:45:24 AM »
You can only have a Coach-Referee Conference to review a misapplication of a rule. OPI is a judgement call.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 09:50:48 AM »
You can only have a Coach-Referee Conference to review a misapplication of a rule. OPI is a judgement call.
Maybe.  Suppose they included LOD in the enforcement?  Or suppose they said that the rule applied to blocks behind the LOS.  Now it's a rules misapplication.

Yes, whether or not it was OPI is judgment.  But did you apply the right rule in making that judgment?

Jim D.

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 10:06:23 AM »
While it's true he can only question a rules interpretation, in my view he's "bought" a discussion with the officials with one of his timeouts.  If he wants to waste his time out venting, I'll let him get it off his chest for a bit.  Let him vent, don't get caught up in an argument, explain what you saw and then move on.  Cutting off this conference too abruptly because he's not questioning a rule interpretation won't help you in the long run.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 10:31:31 AM »
While it's true he can only question a rules interpretation, in my view he's "bought" a discussion with the officials with one of his timeouts.  If he wants to waste his time out venting, I'll let him get it off his chest for a bit.  Let him vent, don't get caught up in an argument, explain what you saw and then move on.  Cutting off this conference too abruptly because he's not questioning a rule interpretation won't help you in the long run.
Well put.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 11:36:41 AM »
You can only have a Coach-Referee Conference to review a misapplication of a rule. OPI is a judgement call.

Considering the age old advice, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar", remember it's YOU who determines whether you are simply answering a coach's question, or holding a Coach-Official Conference that requires determining whether a charged TO may be applicable.

Online bama_stripes

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 01:31:26 PM »
While it's true he can only question a rules interpretation, in my view he's "bought" a discussion with the officials with one of his timeouts.  If he wants to waste his time out venting, I'll let him get it off his chest for a bit.  Let him vent, don't get caught up in an argument, explain what you saw and then move on.  Cutting off this conference too abruptly because he's not questioning a rule interpretation won't help you in the long run.
:thumbup

Offline Curious

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2014, 02:32:54 PM »
A couple of questions:

1. When does the TO actually begin (timing the 60 seconds)? 
    a. When the officials recognize the coach has asked for a conference?
    b. When the R determines the conference is not about a rule?
    c. When the R determines the coach's question has been answered - with no change being made?

2. When does the TO end?
    a. When the R determines the conference is not about a rule?
    b. When the coach's question has been answered - with no change being made.
    c  When the coach's question has been answered - with no change being made - but there is any time left?                                                                                                                         



Offline GeorgiaBlue

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2014, 03:15:12 PM »
I'm of the philosophy that you grant a TO to have a coach-referee conference.  If during that conference, it is decided that a rule was misapplied (rule, yardage, etc), then you can give the TO back to the team that it was requested.

The TO should last a standard 60 seconds unless the referee needs more time to finish the conference.

I don't like charging TO's after the fact.  I think it isn't fair to the other team.

Jim D.

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2014, 03:44:56 PM »
I'm of the philosophy that you grant a TO to have a coach-referee conference.  If during that conference, it is decided that a rule was misapplied (rule, yardage, etc), then you can give the TO back to the team that it was requested.

The TO should last a standard 60 seconds unless the referee needs more time to finish the conference.

I don't like charging TO's after the fact.  I think it isn't fair to the other team.

I agree.  As a wing I'll talk to the coach informally all night long - give him numbers, try to explain calls, etc.  However, if he wants a conference to either discuss something at length when we don't have time,or to have another official come over and join us, then he must request a charged timeout.  If we change a ruling then he gets it back.

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2014, 10:20:45 AM »
We had a C/R conference requested this year in a game where a team was flagged for holding on ^flag ^flag ^flag 3 consecutive plays. When I arrived at the sideline to meet the coach, the conversation went sorta' like this :
              COACH : " Please define 'holding' for me ". :( :( :(
              RESPONSE : "the book definition, or the practical definition?" ???
              C : "What just got called on us on three plays in a row." :( :(
              R : "We focus on the runner's advance and are there any illegal acts by his teammates that aid
                      him"
              C : "Have you ever seen holding called on 3 plays in a row?"  :(
              R : " I have never seen a team THAT WAS holding on 3 plays in a row, but if you do this long
                    enough, I 'spect you'll see everything." :)
              C : "Ayuh, 'spect so."  :) 

It cost him a TO..he vented...I responded....play continued...and the band played on....

Offline VALJ

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 10:28:57 AM »
We have a school that once got 22 (I think?) flags in a game, at least 75% of which were for holding.  Unfortunately, the coaching staff TEACHES their linemen to hold, figuring we won't call it every time.  They also figure "that's OK, we'll get it back the next play" when we flag them.  Darnedest thing is, they're right - they usually do get it back and then some on the next play.  They're one of the top teams in the state, and they're so good that they don't need to hold, but they do anyway...

Jim D.

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 11:08:57 AM »
Sadly there used to be a very successful coach in central Missouri (he was sort of the Woody Hayes of high school football) that used to coach intimidation via cheap hits.  He didn't mind personal fouls for dirty play or late hits - tt just proved that his players were intimidating the opponent.  Unfortunately, that twisted thinking worked well for him.  Finally, after many state titles, the jerk finally retired.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »
Sadly there used to be a very successful coach in central Missouri (he was sort of the Woody Hayes of high school football) that used to coach intimidation via cheap hits.  He didn't mind personal fouls for dirty play or late hits - tt just proved that his players were intimidating the opponent.  Unfortunately, that twisted thinking worked well for him.  Finally, after many state titles, the jerk finally retired.
There's a huge difference in linemen learning to grab a jersey or hook a DE on a sweep and cheap/late hits.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Coach-Referee Conference
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 04:07:02 PM »
If you teach a kid to "hold", he'll never bother to learn to block.