Forward Handing

[AFSST]

Here's a rule that I misunderstood until this year.  Last year I was the R for a team that ran the option well with a patient QB.  A few times he would tuck the ball in the FB's belly and then both of them would proceed through the hole a few yards downfield before the QB completed the handoff or pulled it back out.  (I wrote a play to "illustrate"):

Second and 10 on Team A’s 20 yard line.  Quarterback A15 runs the option and “tucks” the ball in fullback A32’s belly at the A-19 and then continues to hold the ball until he reaches the A-22 where he then completes the handoff.  A32 is downed on the A-29. 

So what do you have?

[maybrefguy]

We have always called this illegal forward handing.

[maven]

How about Rule 2?

2-19-2:

"Forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the
entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned."

[ck4597]

Forward handing occurs when the runner releases ball when the entire ball is beyond the yard line where runner is positioned.... Look at 7.3.2.... Question is is QB in front of runner or behind

[AFSST]

Let's say for the sake of argument the QB is clearly behind the FB when he finally releases the ball.

I'm asking because I'm having a friendly discussion/debate with some of our vets about this rule.

Another reference I'm using (which started this "debate") is the Redding Study guide, page 31, Additional Example #8.

[maven]

Let's say for the sake of argument the QB is clearly behind the FB when he finally releases the ball.

I'm asking because I'm having a friendly discussion/debate with some of our vets about this rule.

Another reference I'm using (which started this "debate") is the Redding Study guide, page 31, Additional Example #8.

What's the debate? If the QB has the ball (enough to "release" it) and the ball is clearly beyond his position, doesn't that meet the test of forward handing according to 2-19-2?

Judgment is required here, but I don't see much confusion about the rule.

[Rulesman]

Let's say for the sake of argument the QB is clearly behind the FB when he finally releases the ball.

Assuming they are beyond the LOS, sounds like illegal forward handling to me. 

[AFSST]

What's the debate? If the QB has the ball (enough to "release" it) and the ball is clearly beyond his position, doesn't that meet the test of forward handing according to 2-19-2?

Judgment is required here, but I don't see much confusion about the rule.

Agreed...that's why I'm posting this play.   

Wanted to get your opinions as I'm discussing/debating with some of the guys in our association.

[bbeagle]

The ONLY reason I can see that forward handing was made illegal is something like this play:

Team A 3rd and goal at the 5. A35 runs the ball to the A1, while standing up and being surrounded by many B players who are trying to tackle him but can't. A35 reaches out with the ball, but can't quite get the nose of the ball into the endzone. A32, in advance of the ball in the endzone, upon seeing this situation, takes the ball from A35's out-stretched hands, and scores a touchdown.

If the play was this, it would be LEGAL (changes in BOLD):

Team A 3rd and goal at the 5. A35 runs the ball to the A1, while standing up and being surrounded by many B players who are trying to tackle him but can't. A35 reaches out with the ball, but can't quite get the nose of the ball into the endzone. A35 drops the ball straight down. A32, in advance of the ball in the endzone, upon seeing this situation, takes the ball from the air inches below A35's hands, and scores a touchdown.

I just don't get it.

[AFSST]

Bottom line (for me at least): By rule, forward handing is a foul.  However, it is extremely difficult to discern exactly when the QB completes the handing and equally difficult for R to determine exactly where the ball is in relation to the NZ at a given time. No one ever complains about this being a foul, so we (our association) typically leaves it alone.

[Atlanta Blue]

Bottom line (for me at least): By rule, forward handing is a foul.  However, it is extremely difficult to discern exactly when the QB completes the handing and equally difficult for R to determine exactly where the ball is in relation to the NZ at a given time. No one ever complains about this being a foul, so we (our association) typically leaves it alone.

Exactly.  It's called a read play, as the QB is reading the LB to see if he should hand off or keep it.  Unless it's incredibly obvious it's forward beyond the LOS, and it usually isn't, leave it alone.

[Wettstein]

So let me flip it on you.  The hand off is completed before they cross the LOS (but the qb keeps tocuhing the ball).  Why then is this not a backward handoff after that?

[FBUmp]

So let me flip it on you.  The hand off is completed before they cross the LOS (but the qb keeps tocuhing the ball).  Why then is this not a backward handoff after that?

Simply touching the ball does not constitute a handoff nor is a backward handoff illegal.