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National Federation Discussion / Re: NFHS Rules Survey
« Last post by Magician on Today at 12:48:45 AM »
I agree I'm not sure what we're really trying to solve.  While I doubt we're going to have too many problems with 40/25, I think it's tougher with majority 5 man HS crews, HS chains, and HS clock keepers.

I tracked our timing for about half the season.  These are deadball to ready for play.  I don't know if formatting will come through.

Game   AVG Whistle to spot   AVG Spot to RFP   Total
1                 8.7                            3.8              12.5
2                 7.3                           4.5                   11.8
3                 7.6                        3.4                   11.0
4                 7.2                        3.6               10.8
5                 7.8                         4.2              12.0
6                 7.0                         3.7              10.7
Averages         7.6                        3.9               11.5
Averages are good to look at but also look at the high and low ranges. Your range only gives a team 36 to 38 seconds before DOG on average. That's shorting them 2-4 seconds to get their play called and the ball snapped on average.

I've captured averages on games that still use the 25 second clock with a good crew and ball mechanics (state final game in other states) and it ranged from 8 seconds to 18 seconds with an average of 13.6.  A large number of them were 10 to 16 seconds but that was still a 6 second variance. That means on some plays the offense had 35 seconds to next snap the ball and sometimes had 41 seconds. That can be a pretty big variance if you have several in a row in the 38-40 range and then suddenly get a 34. The main benefit of the 40 second clock is that is automatically consistent. As the R you also don't have to worry about how quickly the ball gets spotted and determine if you should blow the ready quickly or wait 3-5 seconds.

Every state that has done this experiment loves it. That includes coaches, players, and officials. Every college official I know who has worked high school with a 25-second clock prefers. It's not a mixed opinion at all. Those without visible play clocks are probably pretty flexible already and you can still do that. If a team is pressing the end or you are you are getting close to the end of a half a team is trying to burn time then you can be more diligent like you are today. Colorado has experimented without visible play clocks and it's worked great for them as well.

The game goes much smoother at a more consistent pace. Once you get used to it and then have to go back to a 25-second clock you realize how clunky the 25-second clock can be. I got this feedback from a coach who traveled to another state for a game and they hated it.
National Federation Discussion / Re: NFHS Rules Survey
« Last post by Magician on Today at 12:38:46 AM »
There is going be a huge gap in efficiency between a 5 man crew and an 8 man college crew. I dread it. Who is going to educate all the :25 clock operators who are not officials? Will they have to know when the clock is supposed to read 40 or 25?
We are one of the experiment states so went through this. We have visible play clocks at most schools. Our clock operators are volunteers or school staff members that get a small fee. They are not officials. We had no issue with them transitioning from 25 to 40. There were occasionally bad ones but no worse than the 25 second clock. The biggest issue we had is the game clock operator not starting after a first down in bounds when the R winds it. We are instructed to not whistle those. It still happens occasionally but not often after 3 years.

As for when to use the 40 or 25, there is an easy rule of thumb. If it's a normal scrimmage play and the same team will snap it on the next play, set it to 40 and start it. If there is any administrative stop (i.e. score, flag, injury, measurement, time out, quarter change) set it to 25. When it doubt set it to 40 and the R will have you reset it to 25.
National Federation Discussion / Re: Umpires, what are you looking at?
« Last post by Magician on Today at 12:28:27 AM »
Before each snap tell yourself the yardline where the ball is being snapped and the line of the expanded neutral zone. For example, 27 to the 29 or 34 to the 32. If you then read run because the linemen shoot out pay close attention to the linemen. If you see one that has gone beyond 2 yards take a quick peak back to the passer. If he still has the ball then you potentially have IDP. If the ball is already released you don't. I've had enough IDP flags that seemed obvious but then on video the lineman was still within 2 yards when the ball was released. Now I make sure the lineman is downfield and this method has worked well. If the QB ends up scrambling you may need help from a wing on the backside because linemen will likely be more scattered.

Like anything this takes experience. I used to struggle with this as well but after several years it seems much easier to me.
NCAA Discussion / Re: KOB - truth stranger than fiction
« Last post by bossman72 on Yesterday at 10:00:00 PM »
This would not be possible for NCAA, because the sideline is never treated as a plane.  I don't have any angst over an OB player touching a loose free kick, making it an illegal KOB.  I have it on good authority that the player in KC game was told something like "you did a smart thing, even if you didn't know it." 

Redding fixed the only issue I had with the KOB rule many years ago.  Before he changed the rule, a B player could secure the ball while airborne and then land OB, and that would be an illegal KOB.  Redding changed the rules regarding airborne players, and, if such players left the ground inbounds, then he stays inbounds while in flight.  So, if he touches the ball while airborne (from inbounds), the ball has been legally and officially touched inbounds by B (regardless if the ball itself is over the field of play or over territory outside the sideline).  Not an illegal KOB, any more.

We definitely don't need to open a can of dead worms by treating the sideline as a plane, even just for this situation.


To back up Ralph's case book play, I proposed a rule change for this year to make the NFHS rule consistent with the case book.  I just added "It's not a foul unless the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory."  This didn't change the definition of in/out of bounds, but simply stated when a foul for KOB was to be called.  This backed up the case book play.

So, it wouldn't be too hard to implement.  It's not like it's the only thing in the NCAA rule book that ignores all football rule logic (see kicks driven immediately into the ground rule).
NCAA Discussion / Re: 2018 - 2019 Bowl game chat room
« Last post by BoBo on Yesterday at 08:50:10 PM »
will anybody be in the room for the D-II, D-III championship games??
National Federation Discussion / Re: Field Goal
« Last post by Derek Teigen on Yesterday at 07:42:37 PM »
thanks for the replies.  It must be an archaic rule and never used unless it was in the situation as put forth by js in sc....even so I wonder why they continue to include it.  It would be interesting to know the genesis of this rule and the reasoning why there was a need to include it.
I enjoyed reading these reflections, and it seems most of you are part of a crew.  In our association we do not have crews so worked with many different WH and officials.  I think for a 1st year official this was good for me because I could take a little bit of something from many different officials.

Also, in our association 1st year officials primarily work as Head Linesman and we do Frosh and J.V. games.  I did enjoy working with the chain crews and visiting parts of the city and state I had not seen.  I had thought that my high school and college playing experience would make it easier for me but I was wrong.  The rules were far more complex, and the game bigger and faster than in my day (35 years have passed) that I had a steep learning curve.  Also, it was more physically demanding than I was prepared for, and I developed a mustard and pickle juice habit.  Even so, my wife's sleep was often interrupted by my excrutiatingly painful cramps.

As the season progressed the games slowed down for me with each assignment, and I am proud to say that my last game of 2018 was my very best work.  (actually l saw a holding call - it was big, caught an inelligible (covered up) receiver downfield on a pass play).    My spots were strong and its a great feeling coming up at the same line as my wingman.  I was assigned a great mentor and we've developed a friendship.  His help and support were a critical component of my success.

I'm committed to studying the case book and rules in the office and staying in shape.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.
Texas Topics / Re: Training Camps
« Last post by first_year_guy on Yesterday at 07:20:20 PM »
As just finishing your first year you should not waste your time on a camp, you are not ready.  Work as many snaps as you can, pull chains, work peewees, do it all, after a year or two of that maybe look into a camp.
National Federation Discussion / Re: Field Goal
« Last post by js in sc on Yesterday at 06:53:41 PM »
I have heard of it happening when the opposing team was up so far in the score that the opposing coach didn't want to run up the score any more than necessary.
National Federation Discussion / Re: Field Goal
« Last post by CalhounLJ on Yesterday at 06:43:20 PM »
Iíve never had it happen but you are reading it correctly.
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