And the band played on, and on, and on

[jodibuck]

Home team band starts playing in first quarter, keeps playing the entire game.  Visiting coach questions if they can play while his team is trying to call signals.  White hat tells him he can't tell them to stop.

[Rulesman]

Unless your state has rules to the contrary, your white hat is correct.

[bbeagle]

Unless your state has rules to the contrary, your white hat is correct.

What you're saying is that the white hat can't do anything about any distraction outside the playing area? I disagree.

1. Someone in the crowd has a laser pointer, aiming at the visiting QB's eyes.
2. Band intentionally plays music like '3 blind mice' when referees call a penalty against home team.
3. Band intentionally plays music very loud when visiting team is in huddle and at the line.
4. Crowd holds up threatening profane signs against visiting team.
5. Crowd throws snowballs at visiting team's bench.
6. Announcer gives embarrassing nicknames to visiting team players, or mocks them while announcing game over PA system.
7. Announcer 'helps' home team while they have the ball - like 'Billy - throw it deep, your wide receiver is open!'

In all the above cases, the white hat should talk to the home team coach to correct the problem. The home team coach must correct the problem or the game will end in a forfeit.

[Johnponz]

I disagree. 

None of these are problems for the coach and he should not have to be bothered with these issues while he is trying to coach the game.  For many of these issues, the Coach is in the same position as the officials in that there is not much that he can do about it.

These are all issues that the AD or other similar school administrative person should handle.  If they do not handle to the crew's satisfaction, the crew can stop the game until they are dealt with but that is about it.

As far as the 3 blind mice song, this is just one that the officials should laugh off and ignore.  Part of our job is to have a thick skin.

[Atlanta Blue]

I disagree. 

None of these are problems for the coach and he should not have to be bothered with these issues while he is trying to coach the game.  For many of these issues, the Coach is in the same position as the officials in that there is not much that he can do about it.

These are all issues that the AD or other similar school administrative person should handle.  If they do not handle to the crew's satisfaction, the crew can stop the game until they are dealt with but that is about it.

As far as the 3 blind mice song, this is just one that the officials should laugh off and ignore.  Part of our job is to have a thick skin.

Agree completely.  These aren't coach problems, they are game management problems. 

[Curious]

But what if the band is better than the game....?

[Rulesman]

What you're saying is that the white hat can't do anything about any distraction outside the playing area?

Show me exactly where I said that. The answer was a straight-forward answer to a simple question. Nothing more; nothing less.

[CalhounLJ]

He can't do anything about the list you gave. "Coach, if you don't make those guys quit throwing snowballs we gonna forfeit this game. ". Lol wut?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AlUpstateNY]

Agree completely.  These aren't coach problems, they are game management problems.

As a professional courtesy, the Head Coach should be the initial point of contact for most issues requiring Game Management assistance.  The HC can ALWAYS CHOOSE to defer to alternate appropriate "administrative", and/or security personnel for necessary handling and assistance in eliminating ANY AND ALL unanticipated circumstances that threaten the orderly completion of the contest.

It is hard to imagine where a rational game administrator would reject a Referee's request to assist in terminating an inappropriate behavior by any school personnel, (Band, Announcers, Sideline personnel, etc.) or any behavior by ANY and ALL spectators that might be deemed to incite or create potential violence or loss of crowd control.

It is  EVEN HARDER TO IMAGINE that ANY Referee would allow such a contest to continue if assistance to deal with ANY such distraction were ignored or rejected.  Should a contest EVER require termination because of crowd control issues and/or refusal of game management to comply with reasonable requests for assistance in dealing with "control" matters, the final determination for either forfeiting the contest, or resuming it at a subsequent opportunity would likely be made at some higher Administrative level.

Of course BASIC COMMON SENSE should dictate the specific decisions made based on the severity of the circumstances.

[Johnponz]

I disagree.  I do not believe the Coach needs to be involved at all.  This is why we introduce ourselves to the AD or Site manager prior to the game, and they are available throughout.

If I cannot locate them, I might ask the Coach to contact the press box or someone else to get them, but that would be the extent of his involvement.  As I said before the Coach cannot even do anything regarding most of the item on that list, and you will probably do nothing but frustrate him if you try to involve him.

You have to be a good communicator and understand how most coaches think.

[AlUpstateNY]

You have to be a good communicator and understand how most coaches think.

Presuming you understand how "most" anybody thinks, can be dangerous.  Very seldom do professional courtesy steps turn out to be wasted efforts, but as always, "When in Rome, do like a Roman" is a practical approach.

[Rulesman]

Keep in mind there are places where the head coach is the AD, and the game administrator, and the water boy, and the bus driver, and the groundskeeper. Every situation is different.

[Atlanta Blue]

Keep in mind there are places where the head coach is the AD, and the game administrator, and the water boy, and the bus driver, and the groundskeeper. Every situation is different.

Thankfully, not here!  The game administrator MUST be someone not involved with coaching the game, by GHSA RULE.  It can be the AD, or anyone the school designates, but it can't be any coach in the game.

Before I went back to coaching baseball, I was often the game administrator for our spring sport games.

And John is correct, the head coach should NEVER be approached about these issues, courtesy or not.  He is busy with things involving this game, and those are things that are someone else's problem.  That why we have game admins. 

And yes, any reasonable admin is going to do everything they can to eliminate these problems.

[bbeagle]

Show me exactly where I said that. The answer was a straight-forward answer to a simple question. Nothing more; nothing less.

The original question was:
[Band is causing distractions to visiting team] White hat tells him he can't tell them to stop.

Your reply was:
Unless your state has rules to the contrary, your white hat is correct.

This sounds EXACTLY like you're saying that the white hat can do nothing about the band. That's completely incorrect. The game should not continue in this case. The white hat CAN and SHOULD talk to the coach/AD/whoever is in charge and correct the situation or not continue the game.

I love how this topic has gotten derailed into OMG! Don't talk to the coach. The conversation should be more or less what we can allow outside the sidelines, and how we, as officials, should handle these situations. In our area, the coach is our main point of contact. He is in charge of getting the AD (if one is available) for us, otherwise the COACH must act as an AD.

It seems that everyone outside of AlUpstateNY would continue the game in all cases. No way I would continue a game with snowball throwing - it's extremely dangerous.

[Rulesman]

The original question was - and I quote - "Home team band starts playing in first quarter, keeps playing the entire game.  Visiting coach questions if they can play while his team is trying to call signals.  White hat tells him he can't tell them to stop."

Nowhere does that post say a word about the band "distracting" the visiting team. All you've done is twist the message to suit what you want it to read. But since you are convinced the Fed has a rule in the 2014 NFHS FOOTBALL RULE BOOK that the Referee can make the band stop playing (short of the aforementioned state rule), please provide that rule reference. And keep snowballs out of it. We are talking about the band, not snowballs.

[AlUpstateNY]

Thankfully, not here!  The game administrator MUST be someone not involved with coaching the game, by GHSA RULE.  It can be the AD, or anyone the school designates, but it can't be any coach in the game.

Before I went back to coaching baseball, I was often the game administrator for our spring sport games.

And John is correct, the head coach should NEVER be approached about these issues, courtesy or not.  He is busy with things involving this game, and those are things that are someone else's problem.  That why we have game admins. 

And yes, any reasonable admin is going to do everything they can to eliminate these problems.

Forgive me, but this getting silly.  The HC (for each team) is the primary supervisor of HIS team on the field. If a situation (ANY SITUATION raising ANY matter of safety or crowd control requiring the attention of field officials stopping play) should be explained to BOTH coaches, as getting the teams off the field may be appropriate).  Whether the individual Coach decides to deal with the problem or refer handling to someone else (Administration, Security, Etc) is HIS decision, and it makes COMMON SENSE that he fully understands what the problem is AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, as he is directly responsible for the safety of 40+ large and often emotional teenagers.

How things are done in Georgia is limited to Georgia, but I cannot conceive a Coach ANYWHERE who would not be (unnecessarily) ticked off in being IGNORED about whatever (problem) might be going on.  AS ALWAYS, the sooner BOTH Coaches are advised of ANYTHING unusual going on even potentially affecting the game, THE BETTER.

Most often, in situations like this, Coaches can be extremely helpful in maintaining control control and minimizing the problem.

   

[HLinNC]

Like several other topics, this one gets rehashed on here about every season at one point or another.  As I recall, Georgia is the only state that specifically addresses this issue at the state level.  As for the rest of us, there is no enforcement authority we have by rule to tell a band in the stands to stop playing.  That doesn't stop us from negotiating, pleading, cajoling, or asking a coach, admin, or band director to kindly have the band knock it off.  There is nothing stopping them from telling us to go butt a stump.  At that point, make note of it, pass it along in your game report to your supervisor, and move on.  If you really want to make a spectacle of yourself, by all means, flag the team the band represents for USC, under whatever rule you desire to implement but prepare to live with the repercussions that will undoubtedly come your way. 

On a personal level, I've been to CFB games from D1AA to major BCS level schools where the band plays loud and a lot- the players seem to get along just fine.  Its just part of the atmosphere.

[Atlanta Blue]

Forgive me, but this getting silly.  The HC (for each team) is the primary supervisor of HIS team on the field. If a situation (ANY SITUATION raising ANY matter of safety or crowd control requiring the attention of field officials stopping play) should be explained to BOTH coaches, as getting the teams off the field may be appropriate).  Whether the individual Coach decides to deal with the problem or refer handling to someone else (Administration, Security, Etc) is HIS decision, and it makes COMMON SENSE that he fully understands what the problem is AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, as he is directly responsible for the safety of 40+ large and often emotional teenagers.

How things are done in Georgia is limited to Georgia, but I cannot conceive a Coach ANYWHERE who would not be (unnecessarily) ticked off in being IGNORED about whatever (problem) might be going on.  AS ALWAYS, the sooner BOTH Coaches are advised of ANYTHING unusual going on even potentially affecting the game, THE BETTER.

Most often, in situations like this, Coaches can be extremely helpful in maintaining control control and minimizing the problem.

 

Absolute nonsense.  Some students are in the end zone throwing snowballs at the opposing team's band, or even into the end zone.  As the head coach, I couldn't care less.  It's not my problem, I don't want to be bothered with it.  I have other things to do, I'm not responsible for those kids, it's a game administration issue, find the game administrator.

Yes, I'm responsible for my team.  I am NOT responsible for crowd control.  I am NOT responsible for the PA announcer.  I am NOT responsible for the photographer standing too close to the goal line.  I'm not even responsible for helping you find someone that is.  If they are bothering you or your administration of the game, then it's between the officials and game administration.  By all means, talk to the game admin and have them satisfy your needs, I encourage it.  That's why they are there.

I am responsible for receiving the warning that there will be a penalty if the band doesn't playing during live balls.  That penalty affects my team, so I will make sure that is handled.

If you are stopping the game for these issues, fine, tell me that, that affects my team.  But don't expect me to go find game administration for you, it's not my job.  I'll worry about my team, as you said I should, while you and the game admin worry about whatever issue is the problem.

That's the reason we have game administrators, so coaches can coach and not have to worry about things that are outside the lines or the team box.

[Atlanta Blue]

As I recall, Georgia is the only state that specifically addresses this issue at the state level. 

From our state manual:

Bands are not to play during live-ball situations.
NOTE: This includes the situation in which there is no timeout and the teams are in a huddle.
(a) If, during a football game, a team claims interference with communications due to band noise, the Referee shall give a warning to one or both head coaches and the bands must cease playing.
(b) If there is a second offense by the same school's band, an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty will be imposed against that school's team.

The R will not do anything about the band unless the team claims interference.  At that point, this rule takes effect.

[VALJ]

FWIW, we've been specifically told by our association that we have no authority over bands and cheerleaders.  Any complaints regarding something going on outside the fences are referred to the state office.

Personally, I wish we could tell the bands to hush.  We've got at least two schools where the band plays from the moment they leave the field to the end of the game, and I have the worst headache when I leave those games.  They play when their team has the ball, too, so the other team certainly can't say they're being unfair.

[Atlanta Blue]

They play when their team has the ball, too, so the other team certainly can't say they're being unfair.

That is the case most of the times when we run into band issues.  It's not that they are trying to gain any advantage (with the exception of one school), they are just oblivious that there is a football game going on.  They think they are the entertainment, that everyone is there to hear them play non-stop!

[bbeagle]

Some students are in the end zone throwing snowballs at the opposing team's band, or even into the end zone.  As the head coach, I couldn't care less.  It's not my problem, I don't want to be bothered with it.  I have other things to do, I'm not responsible for those kids, it's a game administration issue, find the game administrator.

I agree with this one.

But if they're throwing snowballs AT THE VISITING TEAM ON THE FIELD, I don't need the visiting team's coach to tell me about it, I'm stopping the game right there (of course talking to both coaches about why we stopped it), and finding the AD, or making the head coach of the home team find the AD.

How am I supposed to know who the AD is to find him if he is not immediately available? That's what the home coach is for. In our area, we don't see an AD before most games. And they might be in the snack stand. I'm not leaving the field to wander through the press box, crowd, parking lot, etc. looking for an AD. That's ridiculous!

Basically, I'm telling the head coach of the home team that the game will not be played if the snowballs continue, and to get the AD/someone in charge for me. He can have an assistant scour the area for him. But if he does nothing, and says, 'Oh, well!' - he is not complying with an official's directive, and I can forfeit the game.

Will I 'forfeit' the game? Probably not, but will I 'suspend' the game, leave the premises and write up a report if the coach fails to get me an AD? Most likely. Again, all depending on the severity.

[bbeagle]

That is the case most of the times when we run into band issues.  It's not that they are trying to gain any advantage (with the exception of one school), they are just oblivious that there is a football game going on.  They think they are the entertainment, that everyone is there to hear them play non-stop!

I have NEVER been in a situation in 20+ years of officiating (in multiple sports) where the band plays while the game is in progress. I guess it's more of an issue in other parts of the country.

I've always thought that it was an unwritten rule that the band plays during breaks in the action, and stops when the players are running plays. It seems so bizarre to me that the band would play during plays.

Maybe horses are kicking field goals in other parts of the country too. I don't know. Horses kicking field goals seem as bizarre to me as bands playing during the action.

[bama_stripes]

Maybe horses are kicking field goals in other parts of the country too. I don't know. Horses kicking field goals seem as bizarre to me as bands playing during the action.

There are many schools around here where the band director / band parents / band members seem to believe that they are the primary reason folks come to a football stadium on Friday nights.

There was an infamous incident during a CFB game in Birmingham several years ago when the two bands got into a brawl right after halftime.  I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.

[Rulesman]

There are many schools around here where the band director / band parents / band members seem to believe that they are the primary reason folks come to a football stadium on Friday nights.

That belief is not unique to the state of Alabama. I've worked games where the visiting team occupies 2 busses while the band has 3 or more, along with a trailer that carries their equipment.