Author Topic: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds  (Read 13799 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Badger1

  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-3
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
This question is geared towards those officials who used the experimental rule regarding the 40 second play clock.  I realize the NFHS Official's Manual will not be published this year so I am looking for the procedure that was used by crews to reset the play clock when a delay in getting the ball spotted ran the play clock below 25 seconds.  I know the BJ is responsible for timing on a 5 man crew but how does he signal to the referee that the time has dropped below 25 seconds and the play clock needs to be reset?  I wouldn't think that the R is also keeping time so how would he know to reset the clock.  In resetting the play clock back to 25 seconds does the game clock get stopped to do this and then restarted?  I don't expect to be on any field this year that has a 40 second play clock so all timing with be done on the field.   

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 10:05:58 AM »
This question is geared towards those officials who used the experimental rule regarding the 40 second play clock.  I realize the NFHS Official's Manual will not be published this year so I am looking for the procedure that was used by crews to reset the play clock when a delay in getting the ball spotted ran the play clock below 25 seconds.  I know the BJ is responsible for timing on a 5 man crew but how does he signal to the referee that the time has dropped below 25 seconds and the play clock needs to be reset?  I wouldn't think that the R is also keeping time so how would he know to reset the clock.  In resetting the play clock back to 25 seconds does the game clock get stopped to do this and then restarted?  I don't expect to be on any field this year that has a 40 second play clock so all timing with be done on the field.   
I'll speak to visible play clocks first. If it's between 20 and 25 and the offense is ready to go don't worry about it. They aren't going to get close to 0 anyway so there is no point in affecting the flow of the game. If they are still huddled or not ready to go then you just give the play clock operator a pump signal (one arm up with palm open) to indicate resettting it back to 25. They can start it immediately once they do that. No need for a wind or whistle. In extreme cases where there is a serious delay in getting the ball in or something like that, you may want to stop the game clock as well, resolve whatever is holding up the situation, set the play clock to 25 and then start both. Those situations maybe happened 3 or 4 times per season so hopefully they will be rare.

Without a visible play clock I would assume the BJ could give the same signal to let everyone know he reset it to 25. He could either communicate it verbally to the R over the O2O or yelling it if he needs to know. Assuming you are already giving the QB a signal with 10 seconds remaining and then counting down from 5, they will still look for that.

Offline ilyazhito

  • *
  • Posts: 364
  • FAN REACTION: +11/-13
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 10:17:25 AM »
Pump up with one arm (2 arms is for 40 seconds). If the referee sees the signal and decides to reset the play clock to 25, reset whatever timing device you are using to 25 seconds. This is why another official (LJ in a 5-man crew, SJ in a 7-man crew) is responsible for the game clock, to free the BJ to concentrate on the play clock and timing timeouts and/or intermissions.

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2940
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 10:30:39 AM »
Will this reset be included in the new rule? If so, what is the actual wording? Something like, “if the officials delay getting the ball ready for play and the play clock gets below 25, the clock operator will reset the play clock to 25?”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline BIG UMP

  • *
  • Posts: 236
  • FAN REACTION: +9/-1
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 09:18:24 AM »
Granted we are fortunate in that coaches and ball boys learned to have balls readily available to the wings.  I didn't reset the play clock a half dozen times last year.

If a team was running a no huddle and we set the ball with less than 25, on the O2O equipment I said reset or the B told me resetting.  If the team huddled and was still in the huddle we probably don't reset, getting out of the huddle is on them.
Big Ump


"EVERY JOB IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT.  AUTOGRAPH YOUR WORK WITH EXCELLENCE."~unknown

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 09:36:41 AM »
Granted we are fortunate in that coaches and ball boys learned to have balls readily available to the wings.  I didn't reset the play clock a half dozen times last year.

If a team was running a no huddle and we set the ball with less than 25, on the O2O equipment I said reset or the B told me resetting.  If the team huddled and was still in the huddle we probably don't reset, getting out of the huddle is on them.
I would say if they are running a no-huddle and you put it down with 20 seconds left, they aren't likely going to get close to 0 anyway so there isn't a major need to reset. But you can if you just give it a quick pump and the play clock starts right away. Be careful though if you do it in a time critical situation and the game clock is running. You don't want to give them an advantage in consuming more time due to a delay on your part. We may have reset a play clock 5 or 6 times over the entire 3 year experiment. It was usually due to some delay in getting the ball spotted correctly that created confusion for the team (i.e. where is the ball spotted or complete vs. incomplete).

Offline TampaSteve

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • FAN REACTION: +23/-13
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 01:27:24 PM »
To take a derivative of this topic. - and perhaps Raplh's inside knowledge.
For NFL/NCAA who have the 40/25, the axiom for the 40 to start is when the hand goes up (play whistled dead) - actually I do remember ECP operators' instructions from NCAA a few years ago specifically telling the 40/25 operator to 'take a breath' before starting the clock after the hand goes up.

I'm assuming NFHS will adopt the mechanic of 'hand in the wir when the play is dead' mechanic too? - and if that's the case, fellas: just like we wait to blow the whistle when a play is dead, we dont need to toss that hand up the nano-second we have a dead ball.

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 04:13:43 PM »
To take a derivative of this topic. - and perhaps Raplh's inside knowledge.
For NFL/NCAA who have the 40/25, the axiom for the 40 to start is when the hand goes up (play whistled dead) - actually I do remember ECP operators' instructions from NCAA a few years ago specifically telling the 40/25 operator to 'take a breath' before starting the clock after the hand goes up.

I'm assuming NFHS will adopt the mechanic of 'hand in the wir when the play is dead' mechanic too? - and if that's the case, fellas: just like we wait to blow the whistle when a play is dead, we dont need to toss that hand up the nano-second we have a dead ball.
That's what we instructed the play clock operator to do in our experiment. We also told them if the game is in the 4th quarter and a blow out, NOBODY is going to complain if they take a couple deep breaths, make a sandwich, call their mother, and then start the play clock.

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 721
  • FAN REACTION: +633/-113
  • See it, Think about it, Pass on it if possible!
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2019, 03:08:51 PM »

So.............
With Visible Clocks that all fine and good.

I live in Oregon and we have about 4 fields with play clocks statewide.

My question is this...We have a rule that states the Referee shall reset the play clock to 25 if the play clock gets under XX due to (insert any reason here)

The Back Judge is timing the play clock with his Ready Ref or his Ref Smart, BUT, they only Buzz him with 10 seconds remaining and that doesn't solve the problem.

How the HECK does the Referee know when there is less than XX on the play clock???

Perhaps, Only the Shadow knows???
SEE everything that you CALL, but; Don't CALL everything you SEE!
Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a great ball game!

Respectfully Submitted;
Some guy on a message forum

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 04:06:02 PM »
So.............
With Visible Clocks that all fine and good.

I live in Oregon and we have about 4 fields with play clocks statewide.

My question is this...We have a rule that states the Referee shall reset the play clock to 25 if the play clock gets under XX due to (insert any reason here)

The Back Judge is timing the play clock with his Ready Ref or his Ref Smart, BUT, they only Buzz him with 10 seconds remaining and that doesn't solve the problem.

How the HECK does the Referee know when there is less than XX on the play clock???

Perhaps, Only the Shadow knows???

Unfortunately, the B can't rely solely on his DumbTimer for these situations.  The B will just have to be aware of the situation, and be ready to signal to the R the time remaining, should it become critical.  Of course, this is independent of the whether the play clock is 40 or 25 - the same process applies, if there are not field play clocks.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 04:12:38 PM »
As critical as field clocks are for play clock timing, I'm surprised the NFHS didn't make field play clocks mandatory, but give schools a one or two-year period to procure field clocks before this rule change was implemented.

Working a varsity contest without visual play clocks would make me retire again.   ;)

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 4727
  • FAN REACTION: +341/-919
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 04:21:36 PM »
So.............
With Visible Clocks that all fine and good.

I live in Oregon and we have about 4 fields with play clocks statewide.

My question is this...We have a rule that states the Referee shall reset the play clock to 25 if the play clock gets under XX due to (insert any reason here)

The Back Judge is timing the play clock with his Ready Ref or his Ref Smart, BUT, they only Buzz him with 10 seconds remaining and that doesn't solve the problem.

How the HECK does the Referee know when there is less than XX on the play clock???


Back in the days prior to Back Judges, the Referee was responsible for monitoring the RFP duration, and had the ability to determine if "an interruption in the RFP interval" merited a simple appropriate (usually unannounced) extension, or a full resetting. Perhaps responsibility for monitoring the RFP interval should remain a factor practically affected by crew size, of the actual game being played. 

Offline riffraft

  • *
  • Posts: 305
  • FAN REACTION: +18/-19
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2019, 10:18:54 AM »
As critical as field clocks are for play clock timing, I'm surprised the NFHS didn't make field play clocks mandatory, but give schools a one or two-year period to procure field clocks before this rule change was implemented.

Working a varsity contest without visual play clocks would make me retire again.   ;)

I think in the last 3 years I have had 2 varsity games with field play clocks. There is no way the NFHS is going to mandate play clocks. Many schools do not have the money for that expense.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 11:06:42 AM »
I think in the last 3 years I have had 2 varsity games with field play clocks. There is no way the NFHS is going to mandate play clocks. Many schools do not have the money for that expense.

The scene was the same in Texas when they adopted the 40-second PC.  Very few high schools had field play clocks before then. Now, almost all of them have field play clocks.  They aren't mandated, but even most of the smallest, least funded schools now have them.  Very unusual to find a field that doesn't have them, now.  They'll find the money. 
Now, competent PC operators - that's another story.

Robert

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2019, 02:02:39 PM »
So.............
With Visible Clocks that all fine and good.

I live in Oregon and we have about 4 fields with play clocks statewide.

My question is this...We have a rule that states the Referee shall reset the play clock to 25 if the play clock gets under XX due to (insert any reason here)

The Back Judge is timing the play clock with his Ready Ref or his Ref Smart, BUT, they only Buzz him with 10 seconds remaining and that doesn't solve the problem.

How the HECK does the Referee know when there is less than XX on the play clock???

Perhaps, Only the Shadow knows???

I guess I would ask if there is any reason for the referee to know how much time is left on the play clock? He's not doing anything different if there are 10 seconds left or 2 seconds left. It's more important for the coaches and QB to know if it's been reset. If you need to give a quick tweet a BJ with a signal indicating the play clock is being reset go ahead and do that. You'll only need to do this a few times per season at most. If you are doing it more than that your issue is likely with ball mechanics and not the play clock.

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 721
  • FAN REACTION: +633/-113
  • See it, Think about it, Pass on it if possible!
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2019, 02:58:50 PM »
I guess I would ask if there is any reason for the referee to know how much time is left on the play clock? He's not doing anything different if there are 10 seconds left or 2 seconds left. It's more important for the coaches and QB to know if it's been reset. If you need to give a quick tweet a BJ with a signal indicating the play clock is being reset go ahead and do that. You'll only need to do this a few times per season at most. If you are doing it more than that your issue is likely with ball mechanics and not the play clock.

Your Q: Is there any reason for the Referee to know how much time is left on the play clock?
My A: YES there most certainly is!  Simple because we now have a rule that says the R needs to take action and reset it to 25 if it gets below XX!

So, Brian,  my original question remains:
How is the R supposed to know when the Play Clock has gone under XX when there are no visible clocks???

The Back Judge gets his/her first buzzed when there is 10 seconds remaining, that does me no good!

Brian, You work in a state where it is a rarity to ever NOT have visible play clocks.  I work in a state that has no visible play clocks anywhere and it will likely stay that way for the foreseeable future.
All things considered, in my opinion, my question is very legitimate and also very timely!
Quite frankly is not a concern on fields that have visible clocks!

 
SEE everything that you CALL, but; Don't CALL everything you SEE!
Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a great ball game!

Respectfully Submitted;
Some guy on a message forum

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 4727
  • FAN REACTION: +341/-919
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2019, 04:20:30 PM »
Just a thought, but where you have 5 or more on the crew, and the BJ has the Play clock, when the clock is interrupted below 25 seconds, he could signal the R, who could then start the new RFP with an (old) signal. 

Where there's 4 (or God forbid) smaller crews (Sub-varsity, Youth Football), it might not be a bad idea to have the R handle the entire Play clock responsibility (which would avoid this problem and insure the Play clock is in the most experienced hands).  If a crew mate is designated to handle the Play clock, same as above (the LJ, L or U) would alert the R who could generate a new RFP, or that official could signal a new RFP.

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2940
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 07:08:02 AM »
That's what we instructed the play clock operator to do in our experiment. We also told them if the game is in the 4th quarter and a blow out, NOBODY is going to complain if they take a couple deep breaths, make a sandwich, call their mother, and then start the play clock.
Pardon me, but doesn’t something like this defeat the purpose of the change? I thought the entire premise was to make play to play consistent.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2940
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2019, 07:09:41 AM »
I think in the last 3 years I have had 2 varsity games with field play clocks. There is no way the NFHS is going to mandate play clocks. Many schools do not have the money for that expense.
You would be surprised at the businesses who will donate money to booster clubs just to get their name on or under the sign. That’s the way most of ours were funded.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2019, 08:16:08 AM »
Pardon me, but doesn’t something like this defeat the purpose of the change? I thought the entire premise was to make play to play consistent.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As we discovered in NCAA and Texas HS, it greatly increases consistency in the RFP period, but it doesn't make it 100% consistent.  We'll probably never get to 100%.  But I'd guess - strictly a gut feel guess based on experience, no science behind it - that consistency increased at least 75%.  Certainly worth the effort.  But as some have said, the PCOs do need to use a little "timing" in starting the play clock.  See the signal, mentally confirm the signal, make sure there is no other superseding signal, then, if all checks out, start the play clock.  That's the long way of saying, "Pause, take a breath and start the clock."  That will probably take between 1 and 2 seconds.  This will do two things: 1) prevent a percentage of unnecessary delays of game, 2) mitigate resets of the play clock (unilaterally by the PCO, or at the direction of the on-field crew).
Consistency is everyone doing it the same way.  If we get everyone to pause, take a breath, and start the clock, then we have consistency.

I am with you, though, on overtly extending the time taken to begin the play clock, regardless of the game situation.  It is not our responsibility to ensure sportsmanship by the teams, outside of what is prescribed by the rules.  If one team is completely overwhelming another team, then the superior team needs to show sportsmanship by taking action to abbreviate the game.  They can consume every second of the play clock.  They can stick to a running game, and run the simplest plays that gain only enough yards per down to earn a first down after three downs.  They can play their lesser skilled players, making it more difficult and, thus, more time consuming, to earn a first down, or stop the opponent from earning a first down when on defense.  Coaches need to take the lead on this.  (Heaven forbid coaches should show some sportsmanship.)
When in question as whether a BC's progress is stopped inbounds or out of bounds, I am OK with ruling inbounds.  But we shouldn't overtly steal the players' time, even if they are getting badly beaten.  It is these situations in which the third string guard gets to play, and that may only happen a hand-full of times during a season.  That is his time.  Time he'll remember the rest of his life.  I'm not stealing his time.

Robert

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3307
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2019, 10:44:44 AM »
Where there's 4 (or God forbid) smaller crews (Sub-varsity, Youth Football), it might not be a bad idea to have the R handle the entire Play clock responsibility (which would avoid this problem and insure the Play clock is in the most experienced hands).

Unless you have a very inexperienced R, this is my suggestion too (and is how I do it with crews of four).

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 4727
  • FAN REACTION: +341/-919
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2019, 12:06:18 PM »
Unless you have a very inexperienced R, this is my suggestion too (and is how I do it with crews of four).

Should you have "a very inexperienced R" play clock timing problems may well be the easiest issues you have to deal with.

Online bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2019, 04:01:55 PM »
Should you have "a very inexperienced R" play clock timing problems may well be the easiest issues you have to deal with.

We all had to start somewhere.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2019, 11:04:39 PM »
How is the R supposed to know when the Play Clock has gone under XX when there are no visible clocks???

The Back Judge gets his/her first buzzed when there is 10 seconds remaining, that does me no good!


1) Use a stopwatch instead of Readyref.
2) BJ can pump when it's under and the R can echo it.

Offline KWH

  • *
  • Posts: 721
  • FAN REACTION: +633/-113
  • See it, Think about it, Pass on it if possible!
Re: Mechanics for resetting the 40 second play clock to 25 seconds
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2019, 02:02:17 AM »
1) Use a stopwatch instead of Readyref.
2) BJ can pump when it's under and the R can echo it.

Bossman I agree with you completely, which leads to my next question.

Why does anyone need to purchase a Ready Ref OR a Ref Smart? 
On a field with Visible Play Clocks, they are unneeded, AND;
On a field without Visible Play Clocks they are unable to notify the BJ that 15 seconds has elapsed????
SEE everything that you CALL, but; Don't CALL everything you SEE!
Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a great ball game!

Respectfully Submitted;
Some guy on a message forum