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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: ElvisLives on November 05, 2021, 11:30:13 AM

Title: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: ElvisLives on November 05, 2021, 11:30:13 AM
If Team A legally drops kicks a ball during a scrimmage down, is that a field goal attempt, regardless of another possible intent?

4/10, B-40, 5:00 (3). A11 receives the backward pass snap, takes two steps forward and legally drop kicks the ball, which flies across the NZ and lands at the B-10, and then, untouched, rolls out of bounds there.

So, do we treat this like a punt, and B takes over at the B-10? Or, is this an unsuccessful field goal attempt, and B gets the ball at the B-40?

Hmmmm.

Specifically referencing NCAA rules, but maybe it is a good question for NFHS, too.
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: dammitbobby on November 05, 2021, 11:47:46 AM
My first thought is that it should be treated as a punt. There is no holder, so although it can score like a traditional field goal, the expectation (to me) is that A has conceded the series and is willing to give the ball to B, in the form of a punt/drop kick, although I'll admit this is based on bias/assumptions regarding the exceptional rarity of a drop kick.  The likelihood of a kid bombing a 55-yardish punt through the uprights is so low that without knowing beforehand that he was even capable of making that, I'm going with punt.  And when B's coach claims field goal attempt, ask him how many 50+yarders he's seen attempted/made in his coaching/playing career (not many, if any).

If there's no communication from a coach prior to the game saying, hey, we're gonna drop kick', then I'm calling it a punt, unless it's clearly within HS field goal range (25 or less, IMO).

I've only ever seen one, it was early this season in a varsity 6 man game, and the kid made it.


Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: Kalle on November 05, 2021, 02:08:05 PM
I guess the question is the same as in here:

4/10 A-20. Team A brings in a unit with a kicker and a holder. The kicker executes a legal place kick from A-10 and intentionally angles his kick so that the ball goes out of bounds at B-40. What next?

I think the rules are not clear on this point. Does the drop kick or place kick attempt have to be an obvious scoring attempt, or is there a line somewhere with some when-in-doubt guidelines? Or are all drop kicks and (scrimmage) place kicks always field-goal attempts?
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: ElvisLives on November 05, 2021, 02:30:49 PM
Or are all drop kicks and (scrimmage) place kicks always field-goal attempts?

That IS the question.
For NCAA, until I get direction otherwise, a place or drop kick is a field goal attempt, and, if unsuccessful, we are going to the B-20, or the previous spot. As usual, this will probably have to happen in a playoff or championship game to draw enough attention to get the rules edited to be clear.
Another thing is that the definitions of a drop kick and a punt should have the word “intentionally” added before the word “dropped.” We have always understood it to be that way, but it would be good to have it in the definitions.
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: ncwingman on November 05, 2021, 03:28:21 PM
In NFHS, the answer is kind of boring -- a field goal is just a punt that can score. Any unsuccessful field goal attempt is treated as if it were a punt.

It's not unheard of (although not super common) for teams to use a place kick as a punt either -- lack of a good punter means their place kicker might kick it further, and that's perfectly legal.

Anyway, back to your NCAA discussion where there's a functional difference between the two.
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: yarnnelg on November 14, 2021, 01:16:09 PM
I guess the question is the same as in here:

4/10 A-20. Team A brings in a unit with a kicker and a holder. The kicker executes a legal place kick from A-10 and intentionally angles his kick so that the ball goes out of bounds at B-40. What next?

I think the rules are not clear on this point. Does the drop kick or place kick attempt have to be an obvious scoring attempt, or is there a line somewhere with some when-in-doubt guidelines? Or are all drop kicks and (scrimmage) place kicks always field-goal attempts?

I was under the post on a 61 yard field goal in a high school game.  You have a long time to discuss the kick. "This will not get here." "No chance, it's short." "Good Lord, it may get here." "Right in the middle ....just a few more yards." "Can you believe this? Good!" "Cleared by five yards...sign that kid to a professional contract now!"
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: Kevinwillis on November 22, 2021, 06:22:26 AM
In gridiron football, a field goal (FG) is a method of scoring. To score a field goal (https://phase3kicking.com/fieldgoals), the side in possession of the ball must kick the ball through the goal, or drop kick it between the uprights and over the crossbar. A fair catch kick can also be used to score a field goal, but this is extremely rare,
 
Title: Re: What is a field goal attempt?
Post by: Ralph Damren on November 22, 2021, 09:59:14 AM
Welcome, Kevin, to our forum. We hope you'll find it both entertaining and informative. While the definition of a good field goal is the same, the results of a missed field goal differs depending whose rules code you are using...

NFHS (high school) : A missed field goal is treated just like a punt. If it rolls dead at the receiver's 3 yard line, that's where they take it.

NCAA : Ball is returned to previous line of scrimmage unless that was inside the 20, and then a touchback in kick reaches end zone.

NFL : Ball is returned to spot of kick..I think ( I'm a Patriot fan, and they don't miss field goals  :)) !