Linemen not breaking the plane of Center's waist

[CoachT65]

So one of the teams we play this year consistently lines up, to my eyes at least, in an illegal formation.  Here is one example:





It looks to me that at least three of the linemen are not breaking the plane of the center's waist, and therefor not lined up legally.  Am I interpreting this rule correctly?  To my knowledge, this team has not been penalized all year for this type of alignment.

[FLAHL]

Looks like a pretty close one to me, Coach.  Do they line up like that on every play?  Or do they line up like that to gain an advantage when they pass block and move up 1/2 yard when they're run blocking?  From this angle, the right guard and right tackle might be OK.  The LT looks like he's not breaking the plane through the snapper's waist.  Note, it also matters "when the ball is snapped" so does that snapper lift his butt and move it back even slightly right before the snap?  If I have to ask questions like this in order to justify throwing a flag, I'm probably keeping it in my pocket.  Curious to hear what other wing officials have to say about this one.

If a coach pointed this out to me in pregame, I'd definitely ask my wings to keep an eye on it.  If they decide this is illegal, I think it's close enough for a "talk to them" the first time.  As I said, if they are doing this to gain an advantage on passing downs and line up differently on running plays, that's a different story and deserves a flag.

“ART. 9 . . . A lineman is any A player who is facing his opponent’s goal line with the line of his shoulders approximately parallel thereto and with his head or foot breaking an imaginary plane drawn parallel to the line of scrimmage through the waist of the snapper when the ball is snapped.”

[CoachT65]

Thanks for the answer. This is their standard formation. I have not seen a difference between when they’re in a shotgun formation or under center. Though they are almost always under center.




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[bossman72]

Coach, usually we give them a "grace area" to the back of the center's butt.  If we see "daylight" between the center's butt and the lineman's helmet, then that's a foul.  If it's between the belt and the back of his butt (or close), we should warn.  In the above picture, I would probably warn the RT.  If he aligns like this after a warning then I might be more inclined to call a foul.

[bigjohn]

Nobody calls it unless it is really blatant, who cares what the rule SAYS. Like helping the runner and intentional grounding. Most officials don't call these. Not really sure why but I have my theory! 

[bama_stripes]

Nobody calls it unless it is really blatant, who cares what the rule SAYS. Like helping the runner and intentional grounding. Most officials don't call these. Not really sure why but I have my theory! 

Because, John, we call WITH the book, not BY the book.  It’s a principle known as Advantage/Disadvantage.

[HLinNC]

My visiting team had a similar problem last Friday night.  Their punt formation was better than their normal offensive alignment, which is where the problems usually are.  This team is horrible this season, after a fairly bad season last year.   They are in a county that pretty much allows open enrollment and have lost all their athletes.

 After the first score, the LJ and I had a discussion about it.   I mentioned it to an asst coach, then the HC.  By then they were down 16-0.  I decided it was the least of their or our worries.  By halftime it was 36-0.  The home coach ran FB dive every play in the 3rd quarter, I assume to avoid the 42 point running clock rule.

We could have flagged it multiple times in hopes that fixed it or we could move the game along and get everyone out of there.

Bang away if you wish.

[FLAHL]

I decided it was the least of their or our worries.  By halftime it was 36-0. 

That's exactly what we do.  During halftime of blowout games we talk about the fouls that have to be called on the team that is behind (safety, unsportsmanlike) versus those that don't have to be called.  Had a JV game earlier this year with a new WH who called illegal formation on the punting team (down by 35+) because they only had 10 on the field, and 6 on the line.  Wish I'd known Bama's quote at that time - "with the book, rather than BY the book."