Author Topic: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune  (Read 3518 times)

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Offline Grant - AR

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https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-high-school-sports-football-referee-shortage-20210810-3m4x2cuhdnfujiewlckqj7i7ci-story.html

That's a very good article.  I think it highlights most of the issues facing officials today.  It's going to be interesting over the next several years at the high school level to see how this gets resolved (or worked around). 

I talked to a high school official at church yesterday about this season.  He said their crew (down 1 from two years ago because of a retirement due to Covid) is thinking about merging with another partial crew so there will be 7 officials in the group.  That way, they will work about 7-8 games per year instead of a full 10.  He said they only worked 4-5 games last year with Covid issues and they liked being at home on some Friday nights and not having to travel for very little pay.  This takes two of the better crews from our area (my friend's crew has been one of the top crews for several years) and reduces it to a single crew.  That's not a good situation for high school football in Arkansas. 

Offline HLinNC

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Fortunately in our region, we really don't have a major problem with coach or fan behavior.  The NCHSAA has been rather strict about profanity and behavior.  The assistant coach policy is pretty much "be seen, not heard".  Youth league is our main problem.  Redneck parents and coaches who think they are the next Steve Spurrier or Vince Lombardi are our greatest issue.  The league keeps increasing the game fee, currently $200 for a 3 game set on Saturday, trying to get us to call.  Its still not enough for me.  I'd take less if they would lock the gate and just let the kids and a limited amount of coaches in.

Regional Supervisors report to the asst. commissioner and they control the officials assignments.  There are no contracts negotiated between schools and individual crews of officials in NC.  In fact, the current state supervisor is against set crews.

Our numbers have been dropping locally but I attribute that more to aging and some officials being tired of the previous RSO.  He pretty much abandoned recruiting to us the past few years.  Our new RSO has recruited about 15 new officials and was able to talk a few that left into coming back.  The new guys are going to have to work Friday nights though, so we've been working hard to get them up to speed as best we can.

One issue we do have is our private schools, currently 3; all used to play on Saturdays.  They now want "Friday Night Lights" just like the public schools.  That has put pressure on us as that's 15 more officials needed on Friday nights that we don't really have.  Since we are mainly beholden to the public school systems, those games are not going to get the strongest officials.

Offline FBOfficialSJ

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I was thinking about this recently.  The NE part of the country is the most populated and has most of the highest paying careers.  Yet, the pay for a HS official is roughly $80/game.  Seriously, that's peanuts these days when you consider everything put into getting to game #1.  If you want to get more officials out there, increase the pay to get people off the bench.  When I officiated HS football 15 years ago, the game fee wasn't much lower.  If the schools can't afford to pay officials, then the schools need to start budgeting better.

Offline ElvisLives

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I was thinking about this recently.  The NE part of the country is the most populated and has most of the highest paying careers.  Yet, the pay for a HS official is roughly $80/game.  Seriously, that's peanuts these days when you consider everything put into getting to game #1.  If you want to get more officials out there, increase the pay to get people off the bench.  When I officiated HS football 15 years ago, the game fee wasn't much lower.  If the schools can't afford to pay officials, then the schools need to start budgeting better.

Hear! Hear!

Here in Texas, no fee increase, but our jurisdiction now begins at 60-minutes before kickoff (instead of the previous 30 minutes before KO). Thus, if both teams are out there, we have to have at least two folks on the field with them. That was fine during my FBS days, when we got paid pretty well to be there 2 to 3 hours before KO. But, for high school football, this seriously handicaps our ability to conduct a meaningful pre-game conference. We should not expect our folks to arrive earlier to accommodate this new requirement, AND have some time for a decent pre-game conference, without a commensurate increase in pay. Guys have to leave work early to get to game sites up to 2-hours away. Add a half hour to that, if we are to arrive earlier. We need additional compensation for the additional time. Otherwise, we continue to arrive 90 minutes ahead of KO, and just don't have much - if any - of a traditional pre-game conference. That's what we did last night. Our pre-game mental preparation was almost strictly done during the on-field pregame, by checking the field, talking to ball persons, chain crew, checking game balls, talking to players about knee pads, etc. If we are conscientious, that will do just fine, especially if a crew meets during the week to review video, rules, mechanics, etc. (outside of a general meeting of all area officials), as does my crew.
But HS football officials are truly grossly underpaid.

Offline bama_stripes

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It chaps my butt to no end to see what some schools are paying coaches and administrators, while pleading “We can’t afford it” when it comes to paying us.  Then they want to holler & scream at us all night, blame us for their team’s failures, and castigate us in the media.

I mean, our D-I university’s head coach is going to make $8 million this year, yet the local guys that work his practices had to threaten a boycott to get a lousy $20/day raise.

C’mon, man.

Offline CalhounLJ

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We actually got a raise in MS this year. $115 for a varsity game. I’ve also been working practice for MSU. they pay $90 for about 2 ½ hours of work. Not bad for a pastime I enjoy.


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Offline dammitbobby

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What's bananas to me, is that some Texas chapters are literally overflowing with recruits and seem to be turning away folks, unless they want to do chains/clock operator.  From a FB posting from a Texas chapter:

The XXX Chapter of TASO is in immediate need of support personnel (chains and clocks - pay range $55+ and you get great seats 😃) and although our 2021 rookie class is set, those interested in officiating should still contact recruiting@XXX.com for more information on getting on the field.

That's not a criticism at all - I think it's fantastic they have so many personnel - but IMO the fact that a very large chapter is seemingly turning away people (at least that's how I perceived the posting) and another metro-area chapter just hit 500 members, just makes it that much more difficult for us to get pay raises. 

Completely, 100% agree we are grossly underpaid.

That said, let's say we got a $25/game raise - roughly 25% - would that be enough to bring in more recruits to smaller chapters?  I honestly don't know.  I don't know if it's just compete lack of interest, lack of awareness, or not enough financial appeal, that stops new people from joining, and causes 1-3 year officials to quit.  (I won't state them here, but I absolutely know if I were to quit officiating, what the reason(s) would be, and they are more chapter-related than overall experience.)

What I do know, is that recruiting is far more important to smaller Texas chapters than the larger ones (that's not a criticism, just what I perceive to be as fact). Either that, or they're doing awesome recruiting campaigns and it's not trickling down to other chapters.  I know TASO is working on this and hopefully we get a big marketing campaign soon, because leaving it up to the chapters isn't working (except for some larger chapters.)

Offline stevegarbs

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As an Illinois official, it blows my mind to hear Texas officials also believe we are underpaid. The myths we hear are that officials in Texas get a cut of the gate in these 20,000-seat HS stadiums to the tune of hundreds of dollars per game. And then we see Mississippi officials getting $115 per game, 6- or 7-man crews, paid chain crews and ECOs. Meanwhile here in the Chicago area we are getting $77 per official for a 5-person crew, rely on school volunteers or maybe paid teachers to work the chains and clock (and if the school has a play clock on the field, typically the BJ is asked to operate it), and only this year are we getting paid two separate game fees on a Friday night when we work a prelim game followed by the varsity game (in past years we received a discounted fee for working a double).


And we are hurting, badly, for officials as stated in the Tribune article. I have to find a substitute on my crew for a varsity game on October 8th and at this point I am being told it is likely to be a very inexperienced official, if I can even get one.

Offline ElvisLives

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As an Illinois official, it blows my mind to hear Texas officials also believe we are underpaid. The myths we hear are that officials in Texas get a cut of the gate in these 20,000-seat HS stadiums to the tune of hundreds of dollars per game. And then we see Mississippi officials getting $115 per game, 6- or 7-man crews, paid chain crews and ECOs. Meanwhile here in the Chicago area we are getting $77 per official for a 5-person crew, rely on school volunteers or maybe paid teachers to work the chains and clock (and if the school has a play clock on the field, typically the BJ is asked to operate it), and only this year are we getting paid two separate game fees on a Friday night when we work a prelim game followed by the varsity game (in past years we received a discounted fee for working a double).


And we are hurting, badly, for officials as stated in the Tribune article. I have to find a substitute on my crew for a varsity game on October 8th and at this point I am being told it is likely to be a very inexperienced official, if I can even get one.

Just the facts. ma'am..
Gate receipts up to $4,000 = $90 game fee
Up to $5,000 = $95
Add $5 for each $2,500 gate increment up to $15,000 ($15,000 = $115)
Gates to $17,500 = $130
Gates to $20,500 = $140
Add $35 for each gate increment of $5,000 above $20,500

So, yeah, if gate receipts are $50,000, you get $315. That's a big crowd.

***Edit***
The problem is that we have no way to verify what the gate receipts are. Receipts could be way higher than the paid fee would suggest. Without an attorney and an Open Records request - which would cost many times more than any recovered fee - we will never know, for certain.
 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 11:26:44 AM by ElvisLives »

Offline FBOfficialSJ

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Why haven't any officials groups unionized?  Or why hasn't the state associations supported the officials and say "Each school pays $x for varsity, JV, etc."

We all pay the state fees, attend their clinic, what do we actually get?

If we stuck together, we would have a lot of influence.

Offline Grant - AR

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Just the facts. ma'am..
Gate receipts up to $4,000 = $90 game fee
Up to $5,000 = $95
Add $5 for each $2,500 gate increment up to $15,000 ($15,000 = $115)
Gates to $17,500 = $130
Gates to $20,500 = $140
Add $35 for each gate increment of $5,000 above $20,500

So, yeah, if gate receipts are $50,000, you get $315. That's a big crowd.
Gates above $20,500 get

Assuming it costs around $5 to get in (I have no idea if this is close or not), if there are 10,000 paying fans, the officials should receive in the neighborhood of $300?  Is that right?  If we had those pay rules in Arkansas, 90% of the games would pay $90 (which is probably close to what most schools pay now), but I can see several games paying substantially more.  I think the high school where I live probably averages 4,000 - 5,000 fans for a Friday night.  There are a few that probably average more than that.  That would be a good raise for the typical crew. 

Offline bossman72

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Why haven't any officials groups unionized?  Or why hasn't the state associations supported the officials and say "Each school pays $x for varsity, JV, etc."

We all pay the state fees, attend their clinic, what do we actually get?

If we stuck together, we would have a lot of influence.

They already tried unionizing in PA.  DC court ruled officials as independent contractors after the 3rd appeal by the PIAA and therefore cannot unionize.  You can search this board for past discussion on it and also google some articles.

Offline Etref

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As an Illinois official, it blows my mind to hear Texas officials also believe we are underpaid. The myths we hear are that officials in Texas get a cut of the gate in these 20,000-seat HS stadiums to the tune of hundreds of dollars per game. And then we see Mississippi officials getting $115 per game, 6- or 7-man crews, paid chain crews and ECOs. Meanwhile here in the Chicago area we are getting $77 per official for a 5-person crew, rely on school volunteers or maybe paid teachers to work the chains and clock (and if the school has a play clock on the field, typically the BJ is asked to operate it), and only this year are we getting paid two separate game fees on a Friday night when we work a prelim game followed by the varsity game (in past years we received a discounted fee for working a double).


And we are hurting, badly, for officials as stated in the Tribune article. I have to find a substitute on my crew for a varsity game on October 8th and at this point I am being told it is likely to be a very inexperienced official, if I can even get one.

Problem is only very few games, normally State Finals, get those kind of crowds.
I have worked huge rivalry games in inner city and there only be 30-40 folks there! Or the small town games may have a packed house but less than 5-600 folks.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2021, 07:42:08 AM »
The AHSAA sneaked in a state law a couple of years ago that all sports officials are Independent Contractors.  Nobody knew anything about it until it had been passed.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2021, 08:40:28 AM »
In Maine , our numbers have been dwindling while our average age is increasing. Not a good direction to be going in. I feel two factors are involved :

(1) Many took last year off ,for with the pandemic , the game was reduced to touch football and became a glorified recess. For some of those the habit of officiating was broken AND enjoyed.

(2) When I started back in 1969 your "bad call" might be discussed for a day or two over the pickle barrel or at the coffee shop. Today your "bad call" is seen in living color by everyone in the stands with a cell phone even before the next play has ran. We all have thick skins but, IMHO, the crowd has become much less forgiving in this era of replay officials and calls being reversed. While I treat 'em like barking dawgs, don't acknowledge 'em and they stop barking, a new official may take this abuse more personal.

I'm not sure that pay is a big factor here. Every year I address our class of potential officials with...

"IF you're looking for a part-time job, don't look here. You could make more as a Walmart greeter or clerk at the corner store. Here you have a hobby of being involved in a sport that you love and a hobby that you get paid for...."

Enough of a rant for today, time to walk my hunting dawg. She knows better than to bark :).

 tiphat:

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2021, 09:05:20 AM »
I was listening to a podcast yesterday about officiating, and the guest was a former NFL referee from Texas, Byron Boston, and he said - I kid you not - that there were high school games in Texas where he made $800900/game, worked 25-30 high school games/season, and went from D5 to D1 (points) in less than 2 years.

Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2021, 10:55:32 AM »
I was listening to a podcast yesterday about officiating, and the guest was a former NFL referee from Texas, Byron Boston, and he said - I kid you not - that there were high school games in Texas where he made $800900/game, worked 25-30 high school games/season, and went from D5 to D1 (points) in less than 2 years.

Many, many years ago (probably 30-35 years ago), I talked to a SWC official from Texas who was working the Texas @ Texas A&M game on Thanksgiving night.  He also worked a high school state championship game at Cowboys Stadium around the same time.  I'm pretty sure he said he was paid more for the high school game than one of the biggest college games in the country. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2021, 12:13:12 PM »
Byron said he definitely lost money moving to the college ranks, and I could see some games having that kind of payout; I know the 6A championship games the last few years average 40-60k in attendance, but my takeaway was that he was getting that amount on a regular basis in high school, which is mind-boggling.

I've no idea how state championship games are paid out today, because they have all of them at AT&T stadium over the course of two days, and one ticket gets you into all the games for that day.

Offline Etref

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Re: Friday night slights: Referees, feeling unappreciated......Chicago Tribune
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2021, 01:37:22 PM »
I was listening to a podcast yesterday about officiating, and the guest was a former NFL referee from Texas, Byron Boston, and he said - I kid you not - that there were high school games in Texas where he made $800900/game, worked 25-30 high school games/season, and went from D5 to D1 (points) in less than 2 years.


Metro areas it can happen. However there is a heck of a lot of football played outside of those areas!
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