Author Topic: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?  (Read 3381 times)

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Online Kalle

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2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« on: January 29, 2018, 04:48:18 AM »
Has NCAA given any (semi-)official guidance as to what the word "quarterback" means?

Play situation: 1/10@A-30. Team A is first in normal formation with the team usual QB A12 in a shotgun QB position with A33 beside him. Before the snap A12 goes in legal motion. After A12 has cleared the widest player A88, A50 snaps the ball to A33. A33 throws a legal forward pass towards A12, but B90 intercepts the pass at A-45. During B90's run B55 launches and contacts a) A12 b) A33 in the helmet with his shoulder at A-30. The contact is not a blind-side block.

Offline TXMike

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 07:01:08 AM »
I don't recall seeing anything official so in the absence of that I would suggest going with intent. The intent of the rule when "QB" was added to list of defenseless players was to keep the "franchise players" safe from cheap shots following turnovers.  There was a documented history of defenders seeking and destroying those players after a COP.  I assume we know who the "QB's" are from our pregame preparation as well as on field observation prior to game start.  It does make for some potentially odd situations to be sure.

Online Kalle

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 08:17:01 AM »
That's my thinking, but there are other officials who want to extend the protection to the player receiving the snap.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 12:54:17 PM »
They can't have their cake and eat it, too.
If they want to protect their star QB:
1) don't put him in some other position, or
2) change the rules to require QB's to wear a distinctive jersey that means they can't be contacted if they don't have the ball, AND they can't get involved in the play.  Once someone else other than the designated QB has the ball after the snap, he is out of the play - period.  Even if B is running back a fumble/interception, he can't block anybody, influence anybody to change their path of travel, or even attempt to make a tackle.  He might as well just go take a seat on the bench.

Would that still be football?


Offline TXMike

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 01:25:38 PM »
Putting the stud QB in another position does open him up I thihnk we would all agree.   But what about the RB who takes the shotgun snap (intentionally or unintentionally) and then throws an interception.   Does he get that added protection given to the "QB"?

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 01:51:32 PM »
A bit of a quandary here since the QB as listed in the rules seems to be the player in position to receive the snap.  If the "QB" on a play ends up being A-25 (the regular running back) and the intended receiver is A-12 (the regular "QB" lined up out on the wing), then I would think that he can't qualify as a defenseless player.  We could flag an egregious headhunting hit following a COP during the team B return, but I don't believe it would be considered a hit against a defenseless player.  And I would think that if A-25 (the regular running back) lines up in the QB position and takes the snap, then passes the ball, he would get defenseless player protection on a COP play.

IMHO TXMike is on point with the stud QB out on the wing isn't really the QB the way the rule is written.  Maybe the NFHS rule that refers to the passer (instead of the QB) is actually worded better?
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Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 05:55:32 PM »
Putting the stud QB in another position does open him up I thihnk we would all agree.   But what about the RB who takes the shotgun snap (intentionally or unintentionally) and then throws an interception.   Does he get that added protection given to the "QB"?

Only if he is wearing a pink jersey! >:D

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 12:56:18 PM »
If the intent of the rule is to extend additional protection to a player who's focus of concentration is related to passing the football, why not adopt the NFHS terminology of "Passer" (as opposed to limiting it to only the "QB").  NFHS 2-22-11: "A passer is a player who throws a legal forward pass.  He continues to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play."

Offline Sumstine

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 08:55:51 PM »
Intent is if he is a QB he has protection as a potential passer even when moving within the tackle box. Commonly referred to as a passing posture. Once on the run he loses the forceful contact at or below the knee (unless he reestablishes a passing posture) but still retains late hit protection. No longer different in enforcement from roughing the passer at the NCAA level but still called roughing the passer. I expect the same guidelines are used in most NFHS following areas. Due to the targeting rules head and neck area applies the same to all players based on their status as a runner or defenseless.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 2-27-14-i defenseless definition?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 08:58:48 PM »
Al, that definition also exists for NCAA, but it is only good for the guy that throws a pass.  In the given scenario, the the team’s star quarterback does not receive the snap, nor does he throw a pass.  He is just a decoy in a play, but an opponent decides it might be a good opportunity to deliver a crushing blow on the star QB, at least “getting his attention,” if not actually knocking him out of commission.  The rules makers want these people protected.