Bean Bag Spot of a Backward Pass Beyond the LoS?

[WestCoastOfficial]

New forum member and official here.  Appreciate you fellas having me on the forum. I've tried the search function a little, but thought I'd give up and just ask the question.

A1 takes a handoff and, after crossing the neutral zone, turns and passes the ball backwards a couple yards to A2 who advances another 15 yards and is tackled.  My question is: do we bag the spot of the backward pass for enforcement purposes?  I talked to a few folks on the walk out to the car after a recent association meeting and got at least 3 different answers:

1. I guess we would.
2. I don't think it's necessary.
3. You know, I'm not sure.

I can't see how the backward pass would be any different than a fumble (for enforcement purposes) and I don't think it's the same as A1 turning and handing the ball to A2 (that would be part of the same run, right?).  So, any help you guys could provide would be greatly appreciated.

[sir55]

Don't know why you would, a backward pass beyond the LOS is not a basic spot for enforcement so no need.

[jg-me]

It is the spot where the related run ends - it is definitely a spot you want to bag. Picture this - A22 runs 14 yards beyond LOS, throws backward pass toward a teammate who muffs the ball. In the ensuing scramble B66 tackles A55 to prevent him from recovering the ball. A88 falls on the loose ball at the original LOS. Where is your enforcement spot for B66's holding foul?

[maven]

jg-me is right: this is a potential enforcement spot.

I would bag it if the pass were not completed, or if thrown under duress.

[WestCoastOfficial]

It is the spot where the related run ends - it is definitely a spot you want to bag. Picture this - A22 runs 14 yards beyond LOS, throws backward pass toward a teammate who muffs the ball. In the ensuing scramble B66 tackles A55 to prevent him from recovering the ball. A88 falls on the loose ball at the original LOS. Where is your enforcement spot for B66's holding foul?

jg-me: the enforcement spot would be the end of the run (where A22 threw the backward pass), unless B66's tackle is behind that spot, right?

[WestCoastOfficial]

jg-me is right: this is a potential enforcement spot.

I would bag it if the pass were not completed, or if thrown under duress.

Hey maven - would you only mark that spot under those two circumstances, or anytime a backward pass was thrown as in this example?

Thanks, guys.

[Rulesman]

Playing Devil's Advocate....

Pitch sweep behind the LOS. You probably see this play every week. Do you bag it?

[WestCoastOfficial]

Playing Devil's Advocate....

Pitch sweep behind the LOS. You probably see this play every week. Do you bag it?

No, sir.  I think it's enforced as a running play if he's tackled behind the LoS with ball in possession.  If he fumbles behind the LoS, it's considered a loose ball play.  Previous spot is the basic spot.

[jg-me]

WCO - B66's holding foul is by the defense so the basic spot for penalty enforcement is going to be the end of the related run regardless of where B's foul occurs.

[Ralph Damren]

If the backward pass occurred behind the line, a beanbag would not be needed but the timing of the foul would be important. Examples : facemask by B ,occurring prior to the backward pass (pitch) being secured would qualify as a loose ball play = previous spot enforcement; facemask foul occurred after backward pass completed = end of related run enforcement. Possible needs for beanbags behind the LOS : (1) R marks spot of sack, U goes to spot while R retrieves ball ; (2) R or U mark spot where passer threw the forward pass if close to LOS and checks after play ends; (3) R drops beanbag at spot of pass if he feels possible IG and checks with crewmates to see if a receiver was in the area - caution old Rs -I'm 68 - this means you will have to bend over 1 extra time .  (6-1)

[refemup]

I apologize for being so late to jump in here, but I don't get to the Federation side of this forum as often as I should.  To further clarify, backward passes (and fumbles for that matter) from in or behind the neutral zone do not need to be bean bagged as they are loose-ball plays with the basic spot being the previous spot (10.3.1.c).

However, backward passes and fumbles beyond the neutral zone require a bean bag to mark the end of the related run which is the basic spot because they are running plays. (10.3.2 & 10.3.3)

[Wingmanbp]

What about a fumble behind the line of scrimmage that goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Your spot is the spot of the fumble therefore needs to be marked with a bag

[Atlanta Blue]

What about a fumble behind the line of scrimmage that goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Your spot is the spot of the fumble therefore needs to be marked with a bag

Spot for what?

[bama_stripes]

What about a fumble behind the line of scrimmage that goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Your spot is the spot of the fumble therefore needs to be marked with a bag

Not relevant in FED rules.

[Wingmanbp]

Not relevant in FED rules.

Well where is the spot for Federation rules then?

[Magician]

Well where is the spot for Federation rules then?

If there is a foul the basic spot is the previous spot.  If there is no foul A gets the ball at the spot the fumble went out of bounds or it is turned over on downs to B if 4th down and the ball did not reach the LTG.

[Wingmanbp]

Oh ok, Just curious on the difference

[bama_stripes]

Well where is the spot for Federation rules then?

There's no enforcement spot behind the LOS that would be bagged in FED play, since these are always loose-ball plays that carry previous spot enforcement.