Author Topic: UIL or TASO  (Read 222761 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2009, 06:40:54 AM »
What loophole?

I think you mentioned having been in Oklahoma previously?  It is my understanding that Oklahoma officials are currently trying to change their system to get out from underneath the HS association and to form their own version of TASO.

What has TASO done wrong since the move?

As for the comparison between us and a professional league..............that is just bizarre. 

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #101 on: December 08, 2009, 06:48:23 AM »

TASO has not been a good organization since they left Mesquite and moved to Austin.  They need a complete re-birth.  UIL with Mr. Yeller in charge of officials doesn't settle my heartburn either.  Maybe I'll just play more golf and take my boy to more games.

You are correct.  So far, TASO is not coming forth and offering anything new.  TASO needs to get off this "Business as Usual" mentality, and start working on making things better too.  They need poll the membership and see what changes we would like to see.  Neither side has presented themselves well at this point. 

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #102 on: December 08, 2009, 06:52:32 AM »
Many of the leaders routinely view this boaerd even if they do not post.  What changes would you suggest?

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #103 on: December 08, 2009, 07:07:36 AM »
Mike,
You know how I feel about the other sports, so we're just talking football.  Up until all this started with the UIL, we had no communication with the membership.  An example would be the website.  A great form of communication, that basically never says anything new.  Even the pictures are are from 2007.  There are tons of very good powerpoint training presentations, composed mostly by the membership, but whats on the website?  More on-line training should be available to all officials.  Last weekend I was at a quarterfinals game, and the crew was using outdated mechanics.  I realize there should be better training at the chapter level, but more stress should be taken to make sure all chapters are using the same mechanics. 

Bottomline, and just my opinion, I believe football should separate themselves from the other sports.  Afterall, that is where the problem started.

rickref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #104 on: December 08, 2009, 07:16:57 AM »
What exactly is the "loophole"? I am not seeing it when I read 1204.

Just curious when we ask questions about TASO, was there not a time they let us go on the field with out insurance coverage? I seem to remember back when I started conversations at the 1st of a year when our board advised us of this. 

Outside of that I agree the website is one of the single best places to start making TASO better.

Also years ago they promised more around film and they had all this new equipment. This was stated at the Frisco meeting. Nothing ever came out of it.

I think ths lawsuit and ask for injunction is the last possible step. I am affraid if that fails then TASO needs to find a way to work with UIL.

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2009, 07:50:12 AM »
Mike,
You know how I feel about the other sports, so we're just talking football.  Up until all this started with the UIL, we had no communication with the membership.  An example would be the website.  A great form of communication, that basically never says anything new.  Even the pictures are are from 2007.  There are tons of very good powerpoint training presentations, composed mostly by the membership, but whats on the website?  More on-line training should be available to all officials.  Last weekend I was at a quarterfinals game, and the crew was using outdated mechanics.  I realize there should be better training at the chapter level, but more stress should be taken to make sure all chapters are using the same mechanics. 

Bottomline, and just my opinion, I believe football should separate themselves from the other sports.  Afterall, that is where the problem started.

Agree 100% with the "separation of powers" proposal. 

Your other recommendations are equally good.  I have seen websites of various chapters around the state and some are really incredible.  Definitely worth borrowing some ideas from for the Statewide site.  We could do a much better job of provisding training opportunites although I think we would all admit, the number of folks who will take advantage of same is going to be rather miniscule

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #106 on: December 08, 2009, 07:55:48 AM »
I tried to post the new 1204 on here (.pdf file) and it said it was too big.  I'm at work now and don't have access to it, but if someone will tell me how to share it, I will be glad to post it tonight.

In a nutshell, there is a phrase in the new CONSTITUTION that says that if two schools mutually agree to use not UIL officials, they can do so as long as they file a report within 5 days of the game.

TASO believes that if we force their hand and they have no other choice, they will have to do this.  They further speculate that if the UIL were to discipline a school for using TASO officials instead of UIL officials, the schools involved would take up the torch for us.  

When the TASO office was in Mesquite and run by Blackwood, he took care of problems.  The points were updated, the insurance was in place, the training by him and his staff was properly and actively disseminated.  When the office was moved, there were 3 executive directors in about 5 years time.  Instability at the head of the snake was the downfall of TASO.  Football continued to run fairly smoothly, but the other sports did not do so well.  The orgainzation, in order to survive needs to hire an executive director to lead during this battle.  We need a general...someone to unite everyone and get things done.

rickref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #107 on: December 08, 2009, 08:08:35 AM »
This part of 1204 which would have TASO out?
(b) TEXAS ASSOCIATION OF SPORTS OFFICIALS. Unless mutually decided otherwise, participant schools
shall use officials registered with the Texas Association of Sports Officials (hereafter referred to as TASO) or
the UIL in all varsity contests. If non-TASO officials are used for varsity contests, a report shall be filed with
the League office (within seven days of the contest, if possible). Exceptions:
(1) In soccer and softball and wrestling, a school must contact the UIL athletic staff and receive prior
approval before selecting and using non-TASO referees for varsity contests.
(2) It is recommended that schools use TASO registered officials for non-varsity games.
(3) Officials assigned to the playoffs shall be TASO or UIL-registered officials


If it mentions non UIL officials in the new wording then I see what you are saying.

What are the implications for the schools in this case if they use non UIL folks?

Offline TXMike

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Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #109 on: December 08, 2009, 08:48:25 AM »
From what I have learned around here is that the coaches are siding with us.  With all the statements coming from the UIL about going door to door and getting 3 mailmen and 2 Walmart greeters to work their game, it has the coaches scared.  The problem is when push comes to shove the coaches don't have any power with the UIL.  The power lies with the Superintendents and most of them are clueless with all this.  We have to go above them and start pushing the issue with local school boards.  Most of the boards around here are die hard football fans and if they become aware that they may be experiencing a lot less officiating or the thought of not having football at all you can be sure they will start getting involved with this.  We just all have to stick together.  Football in Texas is a huge part of the economy.  With the economy already facing problems of its own, imagine if there was the threat that there won't be any games next season.  Once this lawsuit gets passed around and lands on the emails of the politicians you will soon start to see some scrambling going on.  Rumor has it that a canidate for Texas Governor has learned of this situation.    When this all started out the UIL was firm.  But I'm sure everone has seen the same "pulling back" that the UIL is having.  I'm confident that they'll pull back even more as the lawsuit is in full swing.  I really believe we'll be working UIL football under the guidance of TASO.  The comparison of the NFL hiring its own officials is funny.  NFL officials may be hired by them, but they also have a voice in matters that affect them.  They have their own organization and are trained by experienced officials. 

youngun

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #110 on: December 08, 2009, 09:47:52 AM »
My questions is just how united are we? Does anyone know the number of chapters that are reportedly leaving TASO? Are we working on them to get them back?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #111 on: December 08, 2009, 10:25:47 AM »
My questions is just how united are we? Does anyone know the number of chapters that are reportedly leaving TASO? Are we working on them to get them back?

The report I received from our reps that went to Dallas was that all chapters are united.  From what they gathered all chapters were in attendance. They stated it was a professional meeting and not a UIL bashing event. 

Offline QAfta

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #112 on: December 08, 2009, 12:02:06 PM »
What I got from the meeting(s) last night.  

Basically UIL wants to be the exec director for TASO.  And Mr. Timmons is it.  Now Mr. Timmons says he wants a board for each sport and will try to do what the boards says.  But there is nothing to make him do so because "he is in charge."  The problem I see with this is at least in TASO we can decide who our leader is.  But what we get in exchange of the current system is that we have a paid UIL staff in charge.  Do we get any say on who that is or someone on the legislative council? Even in a non-voting member?  The TASO board does have 2 UIL members on the board (not that they stay around for meetings.)  

So the choice is.  Stay with TASO and be able to have a say in the leadership or go to UIL and have someone else in charge that might be able to help us with problems with schools?

One other thing I got from the meeting is that no one wants to talk about the problems with TASO or UIL that brought this about.  And I for one don't know of them.  Some talk about accountability issues.  But why is this a problem.  If there is a problem with a crew STOP picking them.  The crew will fix the problem or go away, the coaches have all the power they need to fix this issue now.  And according to Mr. Timmons coaches picking officials will not change.

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #113 on: December 08, 2009, 12:41:37 PM »
My view on the "accountability" deal, based on listening to Timmons, reading some material on various discussion sites, and talking to folks is that it is related to basketball....surprise, surprise.  Too many coaches were being ejected in the minds of some folks and the officials who ejected them did not "answer" for the ejection while the coaches had to go to Austin.  The way I read and hear what the UIL is saying they want to be able to slap down an official who ejects a coach who argued about a rule interp that is later determined to have been ruled incorrectly by the refs. This is NOT a football problem.   


Offline Welpe

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #114 on: December 08, 2009, 12:45:08 PM »
Do football coaches actually get ejected in Texas?  ;D

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #115 on: December 08, 2009, 12:47:01 PM »
Not like basketball, softball and baseball (and soccer) coaches.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #116 on: December 08, 2009, 12:50:17 PM »
I've never ejected one at any level in 23 seasons.  I have flagged one for a UC.

Offline Welpe

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #117 on: December 08, 2009, 12:57:07 PM »
I know it is not common in football compared to other sports but it didn't seem that uncommon to have our association in California eject a few per year, especially at the subvarsity level.

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #118 on: December 08, 2009, 01:00:58 PM »
You ain't in Callyfornia padnuh.  We take the "abuse" and grow thick skins in these parts.

Offline Welpe

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #119 on: December 08, 2009, 01:19:25 PM »
I am well aware I am in another part of world believe me.  Is there anything a coach can say to merit a flag here or are the officials pretty much free game?  Do you give a varsity head coach more leeway than sub-varsity or assistant coaches?  Chalk up another reason I like working umpire...no coach in your ear.   ;D
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:22:19 PM by Welpe »

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #120 on: December 08, 2009, 01:23:22 PM »
Ea guy has his own limit line.  Nobody has ever crossed mine.

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #121 on: December 08, 2009, 01:24:06 PM »
I really did not get much new information last night. Timmons is definitely selling his product . I just don't know how many buyers he has!

The coaches and AD's may be our best bet at getting this solved as they will have a vested interest in the quality of officials.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #122 on: December 08, 2009, 02:18:35 PM »
The report I received from our reps that went to Dallas was that all chapters are united.  From what they gathered all chapters were in attendance. They stated it was a professional meeting and not a UIL bashing event. 

I know that all the representatives at the meetings were united, but how they can say ALL chapters are united, when in most cases it hasn't been presented to the chapter membership?

Offline fencewire

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2009, 02:22:55 PM »
Was the subject of the lawsuit brought up to Mr. T during his infomercial?

I agree with a LOT of what TexDoc wrote and he said it much better than I could have, but one of my main issues with TASO is the lack of educational materials available through the TASO web portal.  There is a reason that the Aloha Clinic videos attract so much attention each year that they are posted on this site, because they are GREAT learning tools, even though you have to weed through the Fed stuff here in Texas, they are still great.  

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2009, 02:30:02 PM »
I know that all the representatives at the meetings were united, but how they can say ALL chapters are united, when in most cases it hasn't been presented to the chapter membership?

Maybe that was poor choice of words, but the feeling they got is that those in attendance, as individuals were united.  It really isn't a chapter decision.  Each individual can make their own choice if they want to register with UIL or not.  This isn't something that the chapter votes on.  Each chapter needs its leaders to provide leadership and guidance to stay firm and keep the members informed.  On our chapter website we have provided all the emails that have been going out from both TASO and UIL.  Being a small chapter it is quite easy to tell what the opinions of our chapter is.  I do know that there are some large chapters that are already moving forward with the coaches in their area to prepare for next years drafting of the crews for their games.  They are just waiting for the realignment to come out and they will continue business as usual.  The coaches will use TASO regardless of what UIL says if that is their only option to have someone officiate their games.  The UIL cannot prevent two teams from playing each other and they will play their games with or without the blessings of the UIL.