Author Topic: Got one for ya  (Read 1050 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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Got one for ya
« on: July 03, 2022, 02:00:19 PM »
Free Kick, A-35. A11's legal place kick is caught by B99 at the B-15. B99 advances to the B-20, where he 'pulls up' and punts the ball which lands inbounds at B-45, and then travels out of bounds at the 50.

Ruling (INCLUDING THE SPECIFIC RULE REFERENCES FOR YOUR RULING):

Careful. Can you prove it?

(Yeah, yeah. "Why would anybody do that?" We've seen equally strange and inexplicable things happen. There is a complementary rule for this situation on a scrimmage kick. But, for a free kick...)


Offline JasonTX

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2022, 06:55:55 PM »
B 1/10 at the B-15.

Using 6-3-10-b, I'm ruling this a return kick.  It's a live ball foul that causes the ball to become dead.  The penalty is 5 yards from the spot of the foul.  2-16-8, tells us that a return kick is a kick by a player of the team in possession after a change of possession during a down.  It is an illegal kick and a live-ball foul that causes the ball to become dead.

Also 2-7-1 gives us the definition of what a down is and that includes a free kick down.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2022, 07:07:31 PM »
Agreed. Based on the last two sentences in parentheses, I'm guessing that Elvis is saying that that doesn't apply because it says scrimmage kick and this is a free kick down. However, nothing in the definition of a scrimmage kick or punt does it say it has to occur on a scrimmage down. 2-16-7-a simply says "A scrimmage kick is a punt..." So this punt is still technically a scrimmage kick, albeit an illegal one, even though it occurs during a free kick down. This is a return kick by all definitions. The ball is dead and its a five yard penalty.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2022, 04:38:40 AM »
Yeah, not saying it isn't, or shouldn't be, a foul during a free kick down. But it is specifically referenced under scrimmage kicks, but not referenced at all under free kicks. The definitions support a foul, but the penalty isn't prescribed there (nor should it be). In my humble opinion, this is an oversight by the Rules Committee and/or Sec-Ed. And, as I look back to my very first rule book (1972), it has been for a very long time.
Just something interesting I discovered while answering a question for one of our brothers.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2022, 06:38:28 AM »
It’s under scrimmage kicks because of the definition of a scrimmage kick. “A scrimmage kick is a punt, drop kick, or field goal place kick.” This is technically a scrimmage kick that occurs during a free kick down. Is it a *legal* scrimmage kick? No. But the legality of it doesn’t change what it is.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2022, 08:04:03 AM »
Taking this to an extreme, a hold by team B during a free kick down should not be penalized as it is not referenced in rule 6-1? The free kick play ends when the kicked ball is in possession of a team B player, and after that very few rule 6-1 clauses can be in effect (I think 6-1-10 is the only one), and we move on to rule 7 and potentially rule 6-3 (for the illegal return kick).

Offline lonnieritch1981

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2022, 10:16:05 AM »
I agree with JasonTX on this one.  Let's not complicate the rules which are complicated enough.  Everyone knows this is a foul; just rule it an illegal kick, kill the play and set it up 1st and 10 for B at the 15.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Got one for ya
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2022, 11:04:39 PM »
Actually, now that I reread rule 2 (always do that when in doubt) I think the rules do have this covered. Rule 2-16-8: "A return kick is a kick by a player of the team in possession after change of team possession during a down. It is an illegal kick and a live-ball foul that causes the ball to become dead (Rule 6-3-10-b)." No mention of the type of the down and the reader is then referred to the rule telling us how to handle the illegal kick.