Am I reading the casebook plays correctly?

[VALJ]

I guess I misunderstood the idea behind the change to the definition of a catch.  I thought that the new rule was that no matter what, a receiver had to get a foot down inbounds to be considered to have completed the catch.  Plays 4.3.3 SIT B and 7.5.4 SIT H and I all show an interpretation that forward progress can be given, even though the player lands out of bounds after being driven back by the defensive player.  Was I the only one with that mistaken understanding?

[TampaSteve]

Although no casebook yet, it was discussed at a Spring Clinic.
Essentially, if A is in the air, B tackles A (say near the numbers) & subsequently carries A 9yds to OOB & A touches down there, we can say that A's momentum was stopped by B.

[Sumstine]

Looks just like the NCAA. 4.3.3B Knocked out is incomplete, carried out is judgement. 7.5.4 lands in the EZ for a TD.

[HLinNC]

That'll be a nice question for clarification at the state clinic.

[Rulesman]

It is my understanding the intent of the change was to mirror the NCAA interpretation. But I've been wrong before.

[VALJ]

4.3.3 SITUATION B: A has third down and seven yards to gain at B's 30.  A1 leaps near the sideline to attempt to catch a pass near B's 30-yard line.  A1 is: (a) airborne trying to make the catch and is knocked backwards by B2 attempting to make the tackle and A1 lands outside the sideline at B's 32 or (b) airborne when he controls the ball attempting to complete the catch and is carried off the field by B2 landing out of bounds.  RULING: In (a), the pass is incomplete and the clock should start on the snap.  In (b), the covering official must determine if forward progress was stopped in the field of play.  If the covering official determines that progress was stopped in the field of play, it is a catch and the clock should not stop.  If stopped inadvertently by the covering official, the clock should be restarted on the ready for play.  If progress was not determined to be stopped in the field of play, the pass is incomplete and the clock shall be stopped, to be restarted on the snap.  (2-15-1, 2; 4-3-2)

[VALJ]

7.5.4 SITUATION H: A pass from A1 is thrown near the intersection of the sideline and goal line.  A2, running towards the goal line, leaps and possesses the pass at the 3-yard line and is forcibly (a) contacted from the front by B1 so that A2 contacts the ground out of bounds opposite B's 4-yard line; or (b) contacted from the side by B1 and A2 first contacts the ground out of counds opposite the 3-yard line; or (c) tackled from behind by B1 so that first contact with the ground by A2 is out of bounds 1 yard beyond the goal line; or (d) tackled from behind by B1 so that A2 first contacts the ground in the end zone.  RULING: In (a), (b), and (c), it is an incomplete pass.  In (d), it is a touchdown.  (2-4-1, 2-15-1,2; 8-2-1)

[VALJ]

7.5.4 SITUATION I: Airborne A1 jumps high in an attempt to catch a legal forward pass.  While still in the air, he is tackled by B1 and held momentarily without touching the ground before he is carries (a) backward towards A's goal line, or (b) forward towards B's goal line.  He then lands out of bounds with the ball.  RULING: In (a), completed pass as forward progress was stopped.  The ball is dead at the yard line where the forward progress of the receiver was stopped.  In (b), it is an incomplete pass.  (2-4-1, 4-2-2a)

[VALJ]

And the new definition of a catch (section 2-4-1 of the rulebook): A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball.

The rule has completely dropped the verbiage about "being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds."


For what it's worth, I've emailed my association's VP of Rules and Mechanics (who was previously one of the state clinicians) for his thoughts.  I'll post them when I hear back.

[Rulesman]

I'll put a call into a member of the rules committee but it may be a few days before I can get an answer. I think he is on vacation this week and next.

[HLinNC]

I really hope it is KISS principle but I'm willing to bet it won't be

[VALJ]

My response:

"I have not looked at new case book, but in answer to your question, the key word is carried. Receiver has forward progress stopped and is carried out of bounds. If just using forward progress this is still a catch. My suggestion is we never have the term carried used in ruling on a catch. Causes too many problems. If you and I have to really look into play to make a ruling , imagine if a coach or fan is trying to understand this play."

So, I'm not quite sure what to make of it...

[HLinNC]

Have you compared the case book plays from this year to last?  It is entirely possible with the Fed that they didn't edit out the old plays that are no longer valid.

This is the same bunch that resurrected the OPI on an ineligible after they had changed it to IT.

[Rulesman]

Now that I've read both the rule and case book it seems to me NC might be on to something. We definitely have conflicting issues between the two.

[VALJ]

Have you compared the case book plays from this year to last?  It is entirely possible with the Fed that they didn't edit out the old plays that are no longer valid.

I hadn't thought to do that; I'll check that tonight.  All three plays have the asterisk indicating that they're new this year.

Now that I've read both the rule and case book it seems to me NC might be on to something. We definitely have conflicting issues between the two.

Yeah, this certainly wouldn't be the first time that the casebook hadn't been changed to reflect a new rule, would it?

[Mike L]

And the new definition of a catch (section 2-4-1 of the rulebook): A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball.

The rule has completely dropped the verbiage about "being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds."

What about the definition of Forward Progress? Has Art 2 regarding airborne players making a catch also been changed? Specifically, I would think if they changed the word "contacted" to "carried", this really isn't all that hard to grasp. (pun intended)

[VALJ]

*rimshot*

Still "contacted" in the forward progress section.

[Magician]

I believe this is like the college interp. You will be very unlikely to see a true "carry". It would have to be obvious and involve some distance.  It's not just a tackle.

[Rulesman]

I'll put a call into a member of the rules committee but it may be a few days before I can get an answer. I think he is on vacation this week and next.

I've confirmed the Case Book plays have not been updated. Go with the definition of catch in 2-4-1. The change takes the guesswork out of the equation.

No foot down =  .

[VALJ]

I've confirmed the Case Book plays have not been updated. Go with the definition of catch in 2-4-1. The change takes the guesswork out of the equation.

No foot down =  .

I'm all in favor of avoiding guesswork, but the casebook plays I quoted above were lifted directly from this year's book... 

[HLinNC]

From the discussions I had with some college officials on Monday, their theory was it was to be like the college rule- pushed = no catch but carried = forward progress = catch.

Guess I'll have to wait until state clinic and get the supervisor's take on it.

[Rulesman]

I'm all in favor of avoiding guesswork, but the casebook plays I quoted above were lifted directly from this year's book...

You are correct, and those were the exact plays I posed to a member of the Rules Committee. After bringing the obvious conflict to his attention, and after a few choice words on his part, his response was that the Case Book was not updated, even though it SHOULD have been. I suspect we will see a correction come out from the Federation before the start of the season.

[HLinNC]

his response was that the Case Book was not updated, even though it SHOULD have been.

<doh, headsmack thingy>

It never ends.

[VALJ]

Curiouser and curiouser, white rabbit.

Those plays in the 2012 casebook have the asterisk in front of them to indicate that they've been updated.  4.3.3.B in the 2012 casebook IS different from the 2011 casebook, and there was only one 7.5.4 play last year (the old simultaneous catch play).

What would a new season be without some confusion between the casebook and the new rules, though?

[bama_stripes]

It's long been my opinion that NFHS should vet all non-Rule 1 changes through RefStripes before going to print.