Center moving after addressing ball

[HoustonUmp]

I know that the center can't change positions after addressing the ball, but can he be substituted for legally?  Last night on 4th down had team at LOS and then coach decides to send punt team on.  The center was replaced by the deep snapper and the center left the field.  Is this legal or a foul for center no longer being the center?  I have never had this one happen before.

[Etref]

Had he touch the ball?

[HoustonUmp]

yep.  That is why I'm not sure

[ElvisLives]

I can’t speak authoritatively, but, the rule says he can’t change position - it doesn’t say he can’t be substituted.
But, now the question becomes, if a sub enters the game, does he have to assume the snapper’s position?  Or, may another player move to snapper and the sub take another poisition?

The real question is why?  I never had an opportunity to ask Dave Nelson, John Adams or Redding why this rule existed.  But, no rules ‘scholar’ I have asked had an answer, much less a good answer.  But, it has to go back to a time with wing Ts, leather helmets, and horns instead of whistles for officials.

Robert

[centexsports]

I had to crop significantly but I have been wanting to post this somewhere.   1926 or 1927 Midland High School football team.   With the mention of leather helmets, I thought, now is the time.  Oh yeah, my grandfather was on the team.

[Looker44]

If the snapper (established by touching ball) moves away from being the snapper, he is violating 7-1-2-b-2

[ElvisLives]

If the snapper (established by touching ball) moves away from being the snapper, he is violating 7-1-2-b-2

That's not what 7-1-2-b-2 says at all.  It says "The snapper moving to another position."  Leaving the field because he is replaced is not moving to another position.  OK, sure.  By the laws of physics, that would be moving to another position.  But that is not the meaning of "position" for this rule.  "Position" mean another position in the offensive formation.

Again, someone needs to dig deep and determine the original purpose of this rule to find out if it is still a valid rule for today's game.

Robert

[ilyazhito]

I know that the center can't change positions after addressing the ball, but can he be substituted for legally?  Last night on 4th down had team at LOS and then coach decides to send punt team on.  The center was replaced by the deep snapper and the center left the field.  Is this legal or a foul for center no longer being the center?  I have never had this one happen before.

addressing the ball? Is he talking to it, or mailing it somewhere? If so, he would need a psychiatric evaluation rather than a penalty .

[ncwingman]

"Addressing the ball" is clearly defined in the rule book:

A player has “addressed the ball” when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance.

However, I think the golf club might count as illegal equipment.

[Clear Lake ref]

"Addressing the ball" is clearly defined in the rule book:

However, I think the golf club might count as illegal equipment.

 

[ilyazhito]

I'd never thought I'd live to see golf on a football forum. If so, this post should be moved to the Other Sports thread. Anyway, if a snapper touches the ball, he cannot un-touch the ball except by snapping it, or leave his position legally other than for a timeout or other stoppage in play. If the center lined up over the ball, but did not touch it, he could be substituted for.

[Clear Lake ref]

I'd never thought I'd live to see golf on a football forum. If so, this post should be moved to the Other Sports thread. Anyway, if a snapper touches the ball, he cannot un-touch the ball except by snapping it, or leave his position legally other than for a timeout or other stoppage in play. If the center lined up over the ball, but did not touch it, he could be substituted for.

Very incorrect.  The snapper may take his hands off the ball. Once he has touched it though he is the snapper.

[js in sc]

Very incorrect.  The snapper may take his hands off the ball. Once he has touched it though he is the snapper.

I do not know about Texas, but for NFHS rules, 7-1-3a states "Following the ready for play and after touching the ball, the snapper shall not remove both hands from the ball."  Foul is snap infraction.  The only exceptions would be for another dead ball foul or a time out.

[ElvisLives]

I do not know about Texas, but for NFHS rules, 7-1-3a states "Following the ready for play and after touching the ball, the snapper shall not remove both hands from the ball."  Foul is snap infraction.  The only exceptions would be for another dead ball foul or a time out.

Definitely not the case in NCAA, so let's make that distinction right now.  The snapper is absolutely allowed to adjust the ball as many times as he wants, and/or remove his hands from the ball after having touched or simulated touching the ball.  He is prohibited from doing anything that simulates the snap.

"He may not move to another position..."  (Although NO ONE seems to know why.)  That clearly means another playing position, not leaving the field.  And there is no rule prohibiting the replacement of the snapper before the snap.  I am confident that Nelson/Adams would have written the rule much differently had that been their intent, i.e., something like, "The snapper may not be replaced, leave the field of play, or move to a different position..."  But that's not what it says.  It only says he may not move to a different position.  I will concede that, by physics, leaving the field is a different position.  But I submit that, in this case, the rule author (who may pre-date Nelson) clearly intended that "position" means "playing position."

But, until someone tells us why the prohibition against the snapper moving to another position exists, in the first place, we really can't know with absolute certainly, if he may be replaced.

Robert

[TexDoc]

I've seen this happen more than once, and I've not flagged it:  4th down, A comes to the line and center puts hands on the ball, QB gets into position to take hand to hand snap, then A's coach changes mind and sends in punt team, which includes replacing the regular snapper with the deep snapper.  Original snapper leaves the field.  There is absolutely no deception in doing this and was not in the spirit of why that rule is in place. 

[ElvisLives]

There is absolutely no deception in doing this and was not in the spirit of why that rule is in place.

I don't disagree with you, other than to say that no one seems to know the real purpose for this rule.  So, I don't think we can authoritatively say that it isn't within the spirit of the rule - although I would bet a game fee that substituting the snapper is, indeed, not outside the spirit of the rule.  But what is the real purpose of this rule? Anybody... Bueller...Bueller....

Robert

[Clear Lake ref]

I can’t think of any situation where the snapper moving to a different position is an advantage. If this occurred the team would have to get set after so still time to recognize.