Author Topic: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....  (Read 16294 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« on: January 08, 2017, 01:47:45 PM »
   As you reach into your Christmas stocking (open your 2017 NFHS Football Rules Book) what presents (new rules) would you like to find????

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.

5. Eliminate FBZ.

6. FBZ only on initial charge.

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.

14. Add 40 second play clock.

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.

26. Face guarding no longer PI.

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.

28. Runner can legally hurdle.

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.

Thank you for your opinions and input of these. I value your opinions and will bring them on my journey from the frozen tundra to Windy Indy (on Jan 20). Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year.

                                       -Ralph

Offline zoom

  • *
  • Posts: 180
  • FAN REACTION: +10/-3
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 02:39:19 PM »
First,

I hope that the blindside block rule #3 we are using in experimental states becomes the rule nationally. 

The defenseless player designation is related #29, but that is already in the Case book and/or mechanics book.  I'm all for moving the list into Rule 2, so no need to reinvent the wheel.  Cut and Paste.

Let em spike from a shotgun #23.  Forget the 3 second runoff though #25.  This is not needed in high school, in my opinion.

I like changing the blocking rule/FBZ, but it really should just prohibit blocks below the waist if the snap is a shotgun snap.  I have never seen an example of such a block, even the immediate ones from a three point stance, where the block occurs while the ball is still in the zone.  The ball is out too fast.  Also, the defense should always be prohibited from blocking below the waist if the offense is in shotgun.  They have to wait for the snap, so they definitely can't block low in time.

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.

--Ok, ambivalent on this..

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.

-- I like it, probably more likely to be called if we take the penalty yardage off.

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.

-- YES

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.

-- YES

5. Eliminate FBZ.

-- NO

6. FBZ only on initial charge.

-- not really in favor

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.

-- can't do all three (5,6,7).  I like the FBZ.  Safe BBW should be allowed.  Could support this.

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.

-- Yes, but RARE

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.

-- Ok, why not just give the offended team the option all the time.

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.

-- No, nothing wrong with game length around here

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.

-- No, same as #10)

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.

-- Ok, but advantage gained is what I use for this rule anyway, what is the point to change the language? 

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.

--  YES

14. Add 40 second play clock.

-- YES, but only by state adoption

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.

-- Uh...  do you have an example?  Yes in any case...  seems like an IW rule situation.

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.

-- No

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.

-- No

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.

-- YES, this has always been a talk to for me anyway.  No advantage is gained.

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.

-- YES

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.

-- NO, we take this out and teams will run bush league hideout plays and we will have less rule support. 

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.

--YES

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.

-- No, I could support it, but it isn't needed.

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.

-- NO

26. Face guarding no longer PI.

-- YES

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.

-- NO

28. Runner can legally hurdle.

-- NO

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".

-- YES, see above

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.

-- NO, no need to baby QBs in high school.

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.

-- YES, as soon as he becomes a "player".

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.

-- YES on DPI on B.  I'm ok with the other two as well.  What about PF that is also PSK?

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.

-- YES

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 02:42:01 PM by zoom »

Offline GA Umpire

  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 346
  • FAN REACTION: +30/-3
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 03:19:32 PM »
   As you reach into your Christmas stocking (open your 2017 NFHS Football Rules Book) what presents (new rules) would you like to find????

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.  I like it the way it is now. Consistency.

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.  Agree

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.  Disagree.  Not seen any problem here.

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.  OK with

5. Eliminate FBZ.  NOOOOO!

6. FBZ only on initial charge.  No

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.  GA already mandates this.  No bbw from a two point stance.

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.  OK

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.  No.  Leave as is.

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.  No.  Unless go back to "old" timing rules.

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.  No!

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.  Leave as is.  Referee discretion.

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.  OK

14. Add 40 second play clock.  State adoption only

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.  OK. 

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.  NOOO!

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.  NO!

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.  Please!

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.  OK

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.  NO. Too much room for abuse.

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.  OK

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.  NO.  Hard to officiate with less than 6/7 man crews.

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.  NO

26. Face guarding no longer PI.  OK

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.  No

28. Runner can legally hurdle.  No.   But it would agree with other rules codes.

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".  No need.  Could never include all cases.

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.  No.  Leave as is.

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.  OK

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.  OK.  But would add exceptions to NFHS rules.

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.   No.  Leave as is.

Thank you for your opinions and input of these. I value your opinions and will bring them on my journey from the frozen tundra to Windy Indy (on Jan 20). Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year.

                                       -Ralph

Offline Rulesman

  • Past Keeper of the Keys
  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +65535/-2
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 04:19:13 PM »
1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.  No

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.  No

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands. No

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.  Yes

5. Eliminate FBZ.  No

6. FBZ only on initial charge.  Yes

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.  Yes (3 or 4. Not 2)

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.  Yes

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.  No

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.  Yes

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.  No

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.  Leave as is.

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.  No

14. Add 40 second play clock.  No

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.  Yes

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.  No

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.  No

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.  No

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.  Isn't this a foul now?

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.  No

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.  Yes

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.  Yes

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.  No

26. Face guarding no longer PI.  Yes

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.  No

28. Runner can legally hurdle.  No

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".  No

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.  No

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.  No

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.  OK.  Yes

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.   Yes
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 1269
  • FAN REACTION: +72/-13
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 07:51:30 PM »
1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach. -- Sure, why not.
2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play. -- Still need to be able to ^flag for repeated offense, but I'm okay with a one time send off.
3, Blindside block must lead with open hands. -- Yes
4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap. -- Yes
5. Eliminate FBZ. -- NO
6. FBZ only on initial charge. -- Yes
7. FBZ only from 3-point stance. -- Yes
8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from. -- I need this one explained
9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only. -- This will be a confusing exception, so no.
10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half. -- No
11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game. -- No
12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained. -- How do you determine advantage? Is that not the point of the rule currently?
13. TO keeps player who lost hat in. -- No
14. Add 40 second play clock. -- I'm leaning no, I'd need to see a good argument why to change my mind
15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg. -- This happened, right? I feel like there's video somewhere.
16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal. -- No
17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO. -- No, way too hard to enforce (laterally? radially? whose call is it?)
20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end. -- Sure, it happens enough and I've never seen it called.
21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper. -- One could argue that this already is true. B cannot be in the NZ until the ball is legally snapped, if the ball is still in the snapper's possession, it hasn't yet been snapped. Case play but no rule change needed.
22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game. -- No
23.Legal to spike from shotgun. -- No
24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS. -- No
25. 3 second runoff on spikes. -- 3 seconds is too much. Maybe 2, but probably not needed.
26. Face guarding no longer PI. -- Yes
27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards. -- No
28. Runner can legally hurdle. -- No
29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player". -- As long as it's not excessive. The NFL has the punter as defenseless by rule even during the return, this can't be the case in high school.
30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees. -- No
31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap. -- Yes
32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B. -- No
33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul. -- Yes


34. Legal formations for A require 4 or fewer backs (not linemen). 6 linemen with 10 on the field shouldn't be a penalty.

Offline scrounge

  • *
  • Posts: 228
  • FAN REACTION: +35/-23
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 09:13:50 PM »
   As you reach into your Christmas stocking (open your 2017 NFHS Football Rules Book) what presents (new rules) would you like to find????

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach. No opinion, leave this to mechanics/states

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.No

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.No

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.Sure, but not strong opinion

5. Eliminate FBZ.No

6. FBZ only on initial charge.Yes

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.No - just make it initial charge, regardless of stance

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.Sure

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.No - too confusing for minimal benefit

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.No

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.No, solution in search of a problem

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.No

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.Sure

14. Add 40 second play clock.State adoption for 25 sec or 40 sec

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.Sure

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.No

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.No!!!

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.Yes

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.Not a problem I've seen

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.No!!!

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.Yes if immediate

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.No - not the end of the world if adopted, but will be inconsistently enforced across wide range of HS R abilities

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.Ambivalent

26. Face guarding no longer PI.Sure

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards. No real opinion

28. Runner can legally hurdle.No

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".Sure, but good luck on this one

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.No

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.No strong opinion

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.Not a blanket for all, but can expand list

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.YES

Thank you for your opinions and input of these. I value your opinions and will bring them on my journey from the frozen tundra to Windy Indy (on Jan 20). Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year.

                                       -Ralph

34.  Convert as many K penalties on free kicks as you can to 'tack ons' and eliminate as many re-kick options as possible.

Offline prab

  • *
  • Posts: 669
  • FAN REACTION: +37/-47
  • Wherever you go, there you are!
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2017, 10:18:50 PM »
8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.

Good concept but doesn't go far enough.  Rule should be changed to include a definition of "inbounds".  (Currently there is only out of bounds and not out of bounds).  After inbounds is defined, rule that IB/OB status of an airborne player is the same as where he last touched the ground, pylon or goal post.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 10:21:00 AM »
1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.
Why change it?  We usually have someone fill in if the U is running late.

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.
Great change!

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.
After successful implementation in Hawaii, I'm all for it.  Should we make a new signal?

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.
Agree if it's "Spot" IP.  If it's previous spot, it's previous spot.  ILS would always be previous spot.

5. Eliminate FBZ.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

6. FBZ only on initial charge.
Leave it alone.  It's not broke.

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.
Leave it alone.  It's not broke.

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.
Yes.  I believe I submitted one of these to the state.  So therefore, it won't be on the ballot.  haha.

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.
Leave it alone.  It's not broke.

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.
That's a little excessive.  If you want to mimic the NCAA timing rule, that would be better.

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.
I'd only do this when the fouling team is ahead in the score.

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.
Agree.  This might be simpler than #11 to implement.

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.
I would avoid this because officials will confuse it with injuries and let players be bought back in for injuries.

14. Add 40 second play clock.
I think it can work.  I'm for it.  If we don't change it, the 25 is fine too.

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.
Does this happen enough where we need a rule for this?  Also, if someone loses a leg, I don't think they'll be going very far, so the play will kill itself. :)

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.
The one where they drive it immediately into the ground?  Eh, I'd let it go.

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.
No.  Impossible to enforce.

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.
No, leave it alone.

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.
I'd be in favor of it because it would prevent teams from doing the stupid "swat at the ball" tactic during a kneel down.

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.
Keep it the way it is.

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.
Yes.  I don't see any reason to prohibit this.

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.
I actually like the HS rule.  Keep it the way it is.

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.
I'm not sure what this is, but it doesn't sound good.

26. Face guarding no longer PI.
Yes.  We basically instruct our guys not to call it unless he's right up in his face.  I'd support the change.

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.
I don't see it enough to have an opinion.  I'd keep it at 15 since KCI is 15.

28. Runner can legally hurdle.
It would save us a lot of boo's.  Guys don't call it anyway.

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".
Don't we already have that?  Wouldn't it make more sense to actually make a rule that applies the defenseless player definition?

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.
Yes, although this would need some very good examples and education.  You can't do "all hits" because legal tackles can be made below the knee.  He has to be in a passing posture and in the pocket.  What this is trying to eliminate is when the defender is coming in fairly clean and has choice of target and he chooses low.

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.
Sure.  Never seen it.

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.
Will never get passed, but I wouldn't oppose it.

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.
I would go with the basic spot change we proposed last time.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:34:59 AM by bossman72 »

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 10:42:00 AM »
Can we also change the rule to say that knee pads are "strongly recommended" to cover the knees instead of "must" cover the knees?  Would save us a lot of headache.

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 04:18:16 PM »
   As you reach into your Christmas stocking (open your 2017 NFHS Football Rules Book) what presents (new rules) would you like to find????

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Liability issue

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play. YES

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands. No; but must be below shoulders

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap. Yes; I'm all for not repeating kicks if possible; and these situations really shouldn't give the ball back to A/K

5. Eliminate FBZ. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6. FBZ only on initial charge. OK

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance. OK

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from. What - you mean after catch?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only. OK

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half. YES!YES!YES!

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game. OK

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained. OK

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in. No! Helmets, if properly fitted, should rarely come off unless ripped off by opponent - for which we aleady have coverage.  Safety issue

14. Add 40 second play clock. Would be nice; but impractical/too costly for many schools

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg. Sure; I've never seen an arm-less or leg-less RUNNER; but sounds like a "no brainer"

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal. No! If a player can execute it properly, it's a cool play

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO. No; we already have enough restrictions on K

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end. OK; like they don't already...

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper. No; if a B player is that quick, why should he be penalized?

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game. NO, NO, NO!!!!!

23.Legal to spike from shotgun. YES, YES!

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS. Yes; but in 5-man, with wings releasing, it could be tough to judge if/where the pass the pass crosses LOS

25. 3 second runoff on spikes. No - if it means taking away USC penalty. Yes, if both are assessed

26. Face guarding no longer PI. Yes

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards. OK

28. Runner can legally hurdle. No!!! It's being copied too much already.  Legalizing will make it even more prevalent.  Safety issue

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player". No; you can never capture everything; you should know it when you see it!

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees. Yes; but only if the low hit is AFTER he has thrown the ball. Otherwise he's still a runner

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap. Yes; and USC against the head coach

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B. Yes, Yes, and Yes!!!

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul. Yes

Thank you for your opinions and input of these. I value your opinions and will bring them on my journey from the frozen tundra to Windy Indy (on Jan 20). Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year.

                                       -Ralph

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 04:33:12 PM »
8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from. What - you mean after catch?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Team A player steps OOB, jumps in the air, secures the ball, then lands in bounds:  Incomplete, since he was still OOB (left from OOB territory).

Team A player jumps in the air from inbounds, secures the ball, then lands out of bounds: Incomplete, did not meet definition of catch.

This closes many loop holes in the rules (See IP rule while OOB).

Quote
14. Add 40 second play clock. Would be nice; but impractical/too costly for many schools

It wouldn't cost schools a dime.

Offline tankferguson

  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-0
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 10:01:26 AM »
   As you reach into your Christmas stocking (open your 2017 NFHS Football Rules Book) what presents (new rules) would you like to find????

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.   Leave as is

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.  Agree

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands. Leave as is.No

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap. Yes

5. Eliminate FBZ. NOOOOO!  In Maine we say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!  We do away with FBZ and we handicap any smaller kid who wants to be an offensive lineman with stellar technique!!!!!!

6. FBZ only on initial charge.  NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.  NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from. No comment.

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.No

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half. No

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game. NO!!!!!

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained. No

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.  No. Kids are copying NFL players to look cool and need to properly wear their equipment.

14. Add 40 second play clock.NOOOOOOOOO!

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg. Absolutely

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal. No

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO. Nope

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end. Yes

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper. Yes

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game. No...keep as is

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.No way. Too many ways to abuse this[
24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.No WAY!!!!!

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.no

26. Face guarding no longer PI.nooooooooo!

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards. yes

28. Runner can legally hurdle.yes....athletic move

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".no

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.no

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.no

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.no

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.No way.  May the all but one live forever in high school football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Ralph, for garnering input from the troops!!!!

Thank you for your opinions and input of these. I value your opinions and will bring them on my journey from the frozen tundra to Windy Indy (on Jan 20). Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year.

                                       -Ralph

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 10:09:01 AM »
Team A player steps OOB, jumps in the air, secures the ball, then lands in bounds:  Incomplete, since he was still OOB (left from OOB territory).

Team A player jumps in the air from inbounds, secures the ball, then lands out of bounds: Incomplete, did not meet definition of catch.

This closes many loop holes in the rules (See IP rule while OOB).

Yeah Bossman, I mis-read this one... cRaZy I would agree here.

It wouldn't cost schools a dime.

Not sure how there would not be any cost here - unless you're suggesting the BJ handles it like he does with the current 25 second timing..  Most clocks (at least around here) have no play clock capability; and, under the current practice, at least the sidelines know when the play clock starts by the RFP being blown...

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 10:12:43 AM »
Welcome, Tank, to our forum. May you find it both enjoyable and informative. Thanks, guys, for all your responses so far and please keep them up as they will be traveling to windy Indy with me on 1/20. You have provided some very good points.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 10:37:09 AM »
Not sure how there would not be any cost here - unless you're suggesting the BJ handles it like he does with the current 25 second timing..  Most clocks (at least around here) have no play clock capability; and, under the current practice, at least the sidelines know when the play clock starts by the RFP being blown...

Exactly, on-field officials keep the clock.  Our European friends do this regularly without issue with their NCAA rules.  I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be. 

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3307
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 01:13:19 PM »
Exactly, on-field officials keep the clock.  Our European friends do this regularly without issue with their NCAA rules.  I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be.

All of my games are without a visible play clock. IMO the 40/25 second clock is the best thing since sliced bread. It is very easy to keep on the field and gives the teams the consistency for the dead-ball interval.

I have to admit that I, too, was sceptical about it when IFAF applied the NCAA rule change, but it took me all of two games to become a convert.

Offline riffraft

  • *
  • Posts: 305
  • FAN REACTION: +18/-19
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 02:13:28 PM »
1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.
Arizona already is different then NFHS

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.
I wouldn't complain

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.
After being part of the experiment in AZ, I am for the rule.

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.
Sure, anything that prevents another kick.

5. Eliminate FBZ.
No

6. FBZ only on initial charge.
Pretty much how it works anyway

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.
No

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.
Would solve all the back and forth on this site :-D

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.
No

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.
Would be ok with it

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.
meh

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.
I think that is how it is generally done now

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.
Sure

14. Add 40 second play clock.
Many people who are under this rule seem to like it, so willing to give it a try.

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.
OK, I am with everyone else, which game did this happen in. Must have happened or why bring it up.

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.
No

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.
No

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.
Yes

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.
In my opinion it can't be done without encroaching already

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.
No

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.
Yes. 

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.
No, No, No

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.
Why?

26. Face guarding no longer PI.
Yes. 

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.
meh

28. Runner can legally hurdle.
No

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".
Not really needed

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.
No

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.
Ok, why not

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.
Meh

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.
Like the all but one.

Offline Rulesman

  • Past Keeper of the Keys
  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +65535/-2
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 05:56:39 PM »
Exactly, on-field officials keep the clock.  Our European friends do this regularly without issue with their NCAA rules.  I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be.
Do you think the outcome of the NC game might have been different had time been kept by an onfileld official with NO visible stadium clock?
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 12:55:40 PM »
Do you think the outcome of the NC game might have been different had time been kept by an onfileld official with NO visible stadium clock?

Why would it?  If we did a 25 second clock with no visible play clocks, how is it any different?  Most states have a mechanic for the play clock official (BJ, LJ, whoever) to put their arm up at 10 or 5 seconds so you know when it's going to expire.  You're not totally in the dark.

Yes, visible clocks are nicer, but the 40/25 is not impossible to run without them like everybody makes it out to be.  Kalle gives you first hand real world experience for that.

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 01:06:40 PM »
Can we also change the rule to say that knee pads are "strongly recommended" to cover the knees instead of "must" cover the knees?  Would save us a lot of headache.

+1

If we enforced this rule as written in FL, some teams wouldn't have any WRs, RBs, or DBs eligible to play. 

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 01:23:03 PM »

1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.
Sure, as long as R is still required to be there.

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.
No. 

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.
Absolutely

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.
OK

5. Eliminate FBZ.
No

6. FBZ only on initial charge.
No

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.
3 or 4 pt, Yes

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.
Yes

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.
No

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.
Add incomplete passes and I say Yes

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.
No

12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.
Yes/b]

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.
No

14. Add 40 second play clock.
Yes

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.
Um, I guess so

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.
Yes.  This play is an injury waiting to happen

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.
No.

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.
Sure.  Has anyone ever really thrown a flag for that?

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.
Yes.  (Would be especially helpful for youth leagues that play by HS rules)

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.
No, would encourage teams to bring in 2, take out 3, and have the third hideout

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.
No

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.
No

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.
No

26. Face guarding no longer PI.
No

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.
No

28. Runner can legally hurdle.
No

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".
No, you'll never get them all anyway.  Just like a laundry list of what is unsportsmanlike conduct

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.
No

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.
No opinion

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.
No

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.
No

Offline VALJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2428
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-14
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 01:37:24 PM »
1.  R could have any  z^ witness for pregame meeting with coach.
We already do this - usually it's the R, but if he's running late, somebody fills in

2. No  ^flag for failure to wear required equip. - must leave for a play.

We usually send them off anyway.  I've only seen a flag for this 1 time in my career, and it was in my first game ever as a WH.

3, Blindside block must lead with open hands.

Yes, yes, yes. Anything to eliminate chances for "kill shots".

4. IS/IP can be PSK if after snap.

Leaning yes, so we can eliminate a rekick as much as possible.

5. Eliminate FBZ.

Yes. Or at least eliminate low blocks!

6. FBZ only on initial charge.

If we can't eliminate it, I'd be fine with this.

7. FBZ only from 3-point stance.

No - if we're going to keep it, keep it the way it is.

8. Airborne player IB/OOB depends on where he came from.

To eliminate the player out of bounds tipping back into the field of play loophole? Sure!

9. No UTD on LOD fouls by team in lead only.

Give the offended team the option, as someone else said.

10.Start clock on RFP on everything but TOs & scores- until last 2 min of half.

I'd love this - I've had multiple 3 hour plus ballgames last season.

11. Offended team can choose when to start clock after  ^flag in last two min of game.

Don't feel strongly about it either way, but it would eliminate the situation where a live ball foul allows a team running the clock late in the game to benefit by another 20 seconds because they fouled. No issues.


12. No mind-reading needed on 3-4-6, use if advantage gained.

Works for me. Eliminate mind reading.

13. TO keeps player who lost hat in.

No. If he sits out a play, he learns.

14. Add 40 second play clock.

I don't particularly want to buy another Ready Ref, but if it will help game times...

15. Ball dead if runner loses artificial arm/leg.

Can't say this has ever crossed my mind. Sure, why not? If the runner loses a leg, he's ij a whole lot of trouble. Protect the player.

16."Pop-up" free kick is illegal.

Not sure exactly how this could be legislated. Not in favor of it anyway.

17.Must have & keep 2 yd. space by all K players from RFP to KO.

Already enough restrictions, and in a smaller crew could be really tough to officiate. No.

20.Snapper can rotate ball end-for-end.

There's no need for him to do so. No.

21. B encroachment if he touches snap before released by snapper.

Yes!

22.No 9 yd. rule for players already in game.

I'd be fine with this.

23.Legal to spike from shotgun.

I'd be fine with this, too.

24. No IG if outside of tackle box and pass goes beyond LOS.

No, no, no. I hate this rule in NCAA and pros. Defense makes a good play, and the QB can nullify it easily. Plus, smaller crews will have a hard time with this.

25. 3 second runoff on spikes.

No.

26. Face guarding no longer PI.

No strong feelings either way.

27. Blocking after giving FC signal only 1o yards.

No. If you're going to give a FC signal to get protection, you can't initiate a block, either. Simple - they don't touch you, and you don't touch them.

28. Runner can legally hurdle.

Not in favor of it, but if it's never going to get called anyway, may as well make it legal.

29. A laundry list of what is a "defenseless player".

No list will ever be comprehensive.

30. Roughing the passer if he's hit below the knees.

Until Tom Brady comes out on the field to QB, no. :)

31. Tossed player sneaks back in game = IP before the snap.

Works for me. Have never had this problem, though, so no strong feelings.

32. Auto 1st down on USC, PF and DPI on B.

I'd be in favor of getting it back for DPI. Not for USC or PF, though.

33.  ^flag by A behind LOS = previous spot foul.

I'd be in favor of this, but again, no strong feelings either way.

Offline VALJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2428
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-14
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 01:38:54 PM »
And Ralph, thank you for doing this every year. It's nice to feel like my thoughts are being heard by the rules committee, even if nothing comes of it.

I'm also with Rulesman and bossman - I hate being the "fashion police" and telling players every day to pull their darn pants down. 

Offline Rulesman

  • Past Keeper of the Keys
  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +65535/-2
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 05:05:38 PM »
Why would it?  If we did a 25 second clock with no visible play clocks, how is it any different?  Most states have a mechanic for the play clock official (BJ, LJ, whoever) to put their arm up at 10 or 5 seconds so you know when it's going to expire.  You're not totally in the dark.

Yes, visible clocks are nicer, but the 40/25 is not impossible to run without them like everybody makes it out to be.  Kalle gives you first hand real world experience for that.
I'm talking about the game clock, not the play clock.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Re: The Belated Santa's Wish List.....
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2017, 12:02:39 PM »
And Ralph, thank you for doing this every year. It's nice to feel like my thoughts are being heard by the rules committee, even if nothing comes of it.


Absolutely!!