Author Topic: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO  (Read 5684 times)

TIGERBAIT

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Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« on: April 25, 2011, 02:57:16 PM »
I've been a looking the other way on this rule since it was put into the rule book. Coaches pulling out their can or bag of tobacco and loading up before and during a game. Talking to them during a conference with tobacco juice coming out of the side of their mouth in front of their players.

On June 7,2010, my son died of head and neck cancer. He was 38 years old and the father of two girls ( ages 9 & 5). He dipped on and off from the age of 16. Everyone tells me it wasn't my fault, that it was his choice to dip. But when he was younger, I didn't do enough to convince him of what could happen. I had the car keys, dating money and the parental "power". No one will ever be able to convince me that I couldn't.

Enough about the background to my question. How many of you have enforced this rule? Is it the coach's decision to risk cancer and we should not put ourselves in the position of stopping him or should we be the one to stop him for at least the three hours we are there.

I obvioulsy won't be a head turner anymore. It may cost me games but I have decided I have to do whats right.

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 03:16:39 PM »
I have never addressed it but you have to do what you feel is right.  You do have rule support as you quoted and it is not a good example for the kids but they will just see it at practice, if you are successful at your games.

My son and I both dip and have talked many times about the need to quit but just never have put forth the effort.
Big Ump
aka Shawn

"EVERY JOB IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT.  AUTOGRAPH YOUR WORK WITH EXCELLENCE."~unknown

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 03:36:58 PM »
Schools here are considered "county property".  No where on county property can you smoke or use any tobacco product.
Obviously County employees (i.e. coaches) can't do this on County property too.
Personally, unless I see him insert the tobacco (?) in his mouth, how can I effectively verify what it is in his mouth? - I can ask, he can respond with 'no'.  Beyond that scope, I can prove nothing, but can document the inquiry.

Now if a guy has his pouch out - yeah we have something; however, in the world where folks can be black-balled from locations, is it a risk you're willing to accept?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 03:40:54 PM by TampaSteve »

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 08:20:15 PM »
I coach football, but I officiate baseball.  No coach will use tobacco on a field where I'm working, period, end of discussion.  If he wants to challenge me, he'll find himself in the parking lot.  And yes, that has happened.

When I first started umpiring MANY years ago, catcher would turn around and offer me tobacco.  Now, if I see that pouch or can, he gets warned to get it out of here.

I'm not doing dugout checks, but if I see it, it gets removed right now, or he does.

Offline James

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 05:32:16 AM »
That rule was stricken from the German translation of the rule book. I have asked a few times for it to be put back in - since it is an image thing - and they say they want to stick as close to the original rules as possible, but I have had no feed back to my requests.
But then, in the north officials are not allowed to drink beer in uniform (or before a game at all for that matter), but in the south I have seen officials knocking one back at halftime...

Offline stevestod

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2011, 12:57:03 PM »

When I first started 20 years ago; officials would light up leaving the dressing room and rub it with their foot just before stepping on the field.  Boy how things have changed.  I have done Semi-Pro in Canada recently that still lets the fans smoke and drink beer during games at  high school fields; talk about weird.

GoGoGo

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 01:09:44 PM »
WOW - That is weird.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 01:39:59 PM »
I dipped or chewed from about age 17 until about 12 years ago.  When I found out my wife was pregnant, I decided that I did not wish for him to see me doing it so I put it away.  Except for a couple of brief relapses, where I found I no longer had the taste for it, I've been successful.  The toughest thing about quitting was riding with a crew and being wedged between two guys in the back seat just spittin' away in their Mountain Dew bottles

35 years ago, I remember the tobacco reps actually coming on my HS campus and leaving boxes of Red Man and Chattanooga Chew for the coaching staff at the field house.  I usually pilfered a box for myself.  Today they would be shot.

LarryW60

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 03:07:03 PM »
In Virginia the campuses are tobacco-free.  No smoking, dipping, chewing, or growing.  If a coach had a pouch or can on school property and someone from the stands or practice field got a photo of it, he'd be fighting the State's DOE for his job, not his principal.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2011, 08:36:50 AM »

I'm not doing dugout checks, but if I see it, it gets removed right now, or he does.

That sounds like really simple, straightforward handling of our job description.  Providing a clear and unambiguous choice to any coach, player or administrator seems like a fair and reasonable option.  I wouldn't think it would pose a difficult choice.

If there's concern about being "black-balled" from a location, for enforcing something SO SIMPLE, SO CLEAR you really have to ask if that location is worth working at.  

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, because that's exactly what's expected of you.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 08:40:43 AM by AlUpstateNY »

TIGERBAIT

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2011, 12:59:34 PM »
I want to thank everyone for their comments. I'm going to do what I should have done when the rule came in. I'll talk to the coaches at pre game and remind them about the rule and go from there.

For Big Ump and his son, please go to www.powerthecure.org under about us and click Jason's letter. Print a copy and everytime you think you need a pinch between your cheek and gum read it. Also, go to www.smokeysnuff.com if you can't stop. Its tobacco less dip that Randy White uses. It can get you over the hump. Remember, the worst thing about cancer is not that it will kill you, its what it does to your family and friends after it kills you.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 03:40:37 PM »
I tried the Smoky Mountain snuff.  In fact there is a free sample pack on the credenza behind my desk.

I'd compare it to dipping grass clippings mixed in roofing tar.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 07:52:29 PM »
I tried the Smoky Mountain snuff.  In fact there is a free sample pack on the credenza behind my desk.

I'd compare it to dipping grass clippings mixed in roofing tar.

So that makes it lot like regular dip, right?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 02:24:27 PM »
It doesn't give you that "warm, fuzzy feeling" so no.

I tried Copenhagen, once. I was not nor have I ever been nor probably ever will be man enough to have dipped 'Hagen.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 03:49:18 PM »
I've tested the newer "snus" made by Camel.

Offline Magician

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2011, 10:38:53 PM »
I have never seen a coach using any kind of tobacco product on the field so this has never been an issue.

TIGERBAIT

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2011, 08:26:40 AM »
Tampa Steve:

I'm looking at an advertising piece on SNUS.  "Snus is a tasty style of tobacco" "Snus is a pouch of premium tobacco that's spitless and smokeless, so you can enjoy it anytime, anywhere". They flovor it so its more attractive to adults and kids and sell it cold. On the back there is one last quote: "Warning: this product may cause gum disease and tooth loss". Funny thing, they don't mention cancer. Its a way to introduce people to tobacco in other forms. The tobacco companies don't miss a trick.

LarryW60

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 08:12:48 AM »
"Snus is a pouch of premium tobacco that's spitless and smokeless, so you can enjoy it anytime, anywhere".
Anywhere, that is, except for on school and hospital campuses.  If you don't smoke it and don't spit it, that only leaves swallowing it.  :P I guess that's why they had to make it "tasty".

TIGERBAIT

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Re: Rule 9;Sect 8;Art1j: uSING TOBACCO OR SMOKELESS TOBACCO
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2011, 05:00:35 PM »
Fadamor:

They will do anything to get a person hooked and everyone thinks cancer is not going to happen to then. My son had to explain that to his wife and two daughters when the doctor told him he had cancer.
Why take the risk for a "buzz" that can kill you . I'll never understand that.

Have a great season.

Tigerbait