Author Topic: enforced separately and inorder  (Read 2066 times)

refjb

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enforced separately and inorder
« on: August 09, 2011, 06:37:32 AM »
Which fouls are enforced separately and in order or occurance (Unsportsmanlike or Personal Fouls or Both) and also which ones simply cancel?

Just trying to figure out a good way to keep this straight.   hEaDbAnG   ^flag    hEaDbAnG

Offline HLinNC

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 07:02:15 AM »
Keeping in mind we are talking dead ball fouls or those treated as dead ball fouls- only those that you can truly not deem the order in which they occurred are cancelled.  Should be an extremely rare occurrence, if ever.

Cancelling is more common for live ball fouls when there is a foul by each team, as long as they are not unsportsmanlike or non-player.

mbyron

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 10:52:08 AM »
I recommend not using the word 'cancel', which misleadingly suggests no penalty. The penalties for two live-ball fouls will sometimes offset.

The penalties for dead-ball fouls are enforced when the order can be determined, as HLin says, and sometimes this has the appearance of offsetting (15 yds this way, then 15 yds that way).

But these are NOT offsets: if one spot passes the line to gain, for example, a team can get a first down. And sometimes the penalty is half the distance, so there ends up being a "net" movement of the ball.

Offline FBUmp

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 11:38:41 AM »
Which fouls are enforced separately and in order or occurance (Unsportsmanlike or Personal Fouls or Both) and also which ones simply cancel?

Under NFHS rules, fouls are always penalized separately and in the order in which they occur.

In certain situations, fouls will offset.  But there is no magic formula  There are lots of different situations that you simply have to learn.For example:
-If fouls occur simultaneously, then obviously there is no order of occurrence.
-A live ball foul and a dead ball foul never offset each other.
-USC fouls do not offset unless it can't be determined which foul occurred first.
-Live ball fouls offset each other and force the down to be replayed.

footballref

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 06:13:35 PM »
-Live ball fouls offset each other and force the down to be replayed.

This is true in most cases. There is a clean hands principle, if the team in final possession gained that possession clean handed (without a foul before they gained final possession) then they can retain possession if they decline fouls by the other team and then have their foul enforced that happened after the COP.

To the OP the best things I would recommend is study the book, find message boards to get plays from, ask other officials ANY questions you may have.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 07:11:16 PM »
Quote
I recommend not using the word 'cancel', which misleadingly suggests no penalty.

I'm not so sure that recommending NOT recommending using the language that is in the rulebook is the best course of action:

SECTION 2 DOUBLE AND MULTIPLE FOULS
ART. 1 . . . It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike
or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which:
a. There is no change of team possession, unless all fouls committed by R are
post-scrimmage kick fouls, or
b. There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the
end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession unless all fouls
committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls, or
c. There is a change of possession and the team in final possession accepts
the penalty for its opponent’s foul at any time during the down.
In (a), (b) or (c), the penalties cancel and the down is replayed.

Offline FBUmp

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Re: enforced separately and inorder
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 08:29:07 PM »
This is true in most cases. There is a clean hands principle, if the team in final possession gained that possession clean handed (without a foul before they gained final possession) then they can retain possession if they decline fouls by the other team and then have their foul enforced that happened after the COP.

You are correct.  I wasn't attempting to cover all situations, just giving a few examples.  Hopefully I didn't confuse the OP.