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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by AlUpstateNY on Today at 10:19:09 AM »
All 3 are reality, but #2 is a real (correctable) problem.  Wasted time between a Try and the subsequent KO has become predictably laughable. 

It seems no matter how many scores happen during a game, somehow a redundant strategy clinic is required to determine how to next put the ball in play.  Even when the same 11 players (from either team) comprise the KO formation, each seems to require detailed, and personal, instructions on where/how to line up and what their function should be.  Despite all the personal reviews, and repetition, somehow "stragglers" are a fairly consistent occurrence.

Unfortunately, that nonsense is on "US", for allowing it to happen.  No telling what difference a consistent DOG requirement might produce, or bad habits it might reduce. The entire officiating crew is lined up in position, the chain crew is patiently waiting on the sideline, waiting for players to enter the field and a subsequent (and prompt) RFP whistle.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by KWH on Today at 10:12:26 AM »

.....and now you really know the rest of the story... aWaRd

...Somehow, Ralph always tells a story better than me.
Maybe its the language barrier...
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Morningrise on Today at 09:16:24 AM »
I agree that it's to say the least non-intuitive to treat striding players as "airborne." That is not what most English speakers familiar with football would assume. Based on the common connotation of the word "airborne" and the way ball carriers typically play football, almost everyone's most likely guess would be that "airborne" means a player who is diving or jumping as opposed to running on his feet.

So rather than awkwardly define "airborne" to include "striding" in an eight-year-old bulletin, wouldn't it be easier to define forward progress in terms of "airborne OR striding" players, and spell it out in 4-2-4-d explicitly?
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by Ralph Damren on Today at 08:43:34 AM »
We were right about the 1996 clock change, although itís only part of the reason games now last up to three hours.
For several years after this was a major gripe at the rules meeting. A study showed :

(1) With expansion of passing game = more passes = more incomplete passes = more dead time;

(2) Higher scores = TD = dead time = PAT = dead time to KO = ave. 4:20 dead time between scores;

(3) Snap on COP = 10:00 per game - remember, inc. pass, OOB & FC on turnovers were snap clocks, anyway.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by Ralph Damren on Today at 08:34:53 AM »
You'll have to explain this play, as I'm having trouble visualizing or seeing how this could be "tricky".
KWH was on the right track, but being at the game, here was my murky memory :

Homecoming vs UNH with the winner receiving the Brice Memorial Musket (said to have been used by some guy named Brice in the War of 1812). It was pouring rain (and beer in the frat houses). No score, 4th qtr., Maine with 4th down on UNH's 20, when....

(1) Maine lined up for a field goal;
(2) Maine's kicker was a better volleyball player;
(3) holder took snap and lobbed ball into air- a backward pass;
(4) kicker batted backward pass toward end zone;
(5) lone UNH player felt it was a lousy kick;
(6) Maine TE knew that it wasn't;
(7) he scooped up ball and waded into end zone;
 ^good ^good ^good ^good ^good (only 5-man crew then);
(8) our section all leaped up - some fell -alcohol may have been a contributing factor;
(9) our kicker missed the PAT - remember he was better at volleyball;
(10) final score = 6-0, Brice musket stays in Maine;
(11) frat house bars stayed open longer;
(12) homecoming queen- remember, this is college - and kicker/volleyball player could not be found.

This made  NFL Highlights the next day, it also made new rule proposals for both NCAA & NFHS shortly thereafter.

.....and now you really know the rest of the story... aWaRd
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by Magician on Today at 08:27:25 AM »
Speaking from experience from the NCAA side of things, when the 40-second clock was introduced - yes, for the primary purpose of gaining greater consistency in getting the ball declared ready for play - the side effect was that, suddenly, teams knew that, officially, because the play clock was running, they could snap the ball the moment the ball was placed on the ground.  Teams saw that they could develop a really high-paced offense, and that's exactly what happened.  I know that we weren't waiting on the chains, at all - not necessarily even the box man.  But we started getting more mobile box men that could get to the succeeding spot before the next snap, so it wasn't really a big problem.  The chains could get there soon enough afterward and get set off the box man.  Yes, it has tended to breed a bit more youthful and mobile chain crews, which is what you will need to address with your member institutions.   
Advance a couple of years, and, due to issues with substitution, officials were directed to stay on the ball to prevent the snap, if A was making subs (to give B the chance to match up), which happens very frequently at the FBS level, but not nearly so much for HS.  That helps to provide additional time to get the box and chains set.  And note that, as long as an official is holding the snap, officially, the ball is not ready for play.

Of course, do what your governing body tells you to do.  But, with the 40-second clock beginning automatically, teams have an expectation of being able to snap the ball quickly, and run high-paced offenses, which means the chain crews are going to have get much better.

Another thing.  If you haven't been used to raising a hand to signify "dead ball" at the end of a down, you will have to get some practice at that before your first real games.  In the absence of a time-out signal (for out of bounds, or to award a news series to Team A), an incomplete pass signal, or a score signal, that is what signals the PCO to start the 40-second clock for the next down.

It will be OK.  In a few years, you won't miss the previous process.

Robert
The ball is not ready the instance the umpire/CJ puts the ball down. He/she still has to wait for the U/C to step away. We still control pace. If our officials (which includes the chain crew) is not in position the U/C doesn't step away. I remember my first game I was stepping away immediately and my wings screamed at me to make sure they were in position. We slowed it down in the second half. They were still able to snap at 25-30 on many plays, but I was stepping away at 34-36 in some cases.

We didn't find the chain crews needed to be significantly more mobile in NFHS but we went at a fairly consistent pace before. If a crew was VERY lenient with the chain crews and waited 20-30 seconds for the chain crew to saunter down, this will be a change. But they are one of the key reasons this change probably came about. Massive inconsistency with dead ball time from play to play affects the flow of the game and the rhythm the teams try to be in from a timing standpoint.

I would say it will be OK in a week or two for most crews. We have a lot of bad crews in our state and they were fine (at least no worse than they were before).
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by bama_stripes on Today at 07:44:52 AM »
We were right about the 1996 clock change, although itís only part of the reason games now last up to three hours.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by KWH on Yesterday at 03:53:12 PM »
Ralph -

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe the snapper left the field in the arms of the Prom Queen???
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by KWH on Yesterday at 03:50:17 PM »
You'll have to explain this play, as I'm having trouble visualizing or seeing how this could be "tricky".


4th Period 0:03 on clock
U-Maine trails be 2
U-Maine ball 4th and goal on the B5 yard line.
U-Maine uses its last timeout and brings in the Field Goal Team
U-Maine snapper snaps the ball directly to the kicker who bats the "backward pass" forward,
and the ball flutters like a wounded duck into the endzone.
The Gun operator fires his BLANK into the air.
The UNH players jump in the air for joy thinking they just won the game, when.....

...wait....

The U-Maine snapper falls on the ball in the endzone??? 

 The officials gather, put their heads together and ^good - Touchdown! - Game over!
Maine Blackbears win - Maine Blackbears win - Maine Blackbears win

NCAA adds rule 9-4-2
NFHS adds rule 9-7-3

...and now you know the rest of the story...
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National Federation Discussion / Re: AND THE NEW RULES ARE......
« Last post by bossman72 on Yesterday at 02:37:59 PM »
SPECIAL MENTION : 1976...9-5-5  Prohibits a member of the passing team to bat a backward pass forward. In 1975 ,U-Maine used this as a trick play to beat arch-rival UNH. It received national acclaim and was outlawed the following year by NCAA & NFHS.     

You'll have to explain this play, as I'm having trouble visualizing or seeing how this could be "tricky".
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