Does 10-4-2 EXCEPTION Also Include Loss of Down

[FeetballRef]

10-4-EXCEPTION: The basic spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the succeeding spot for fouls by K during a free or scrimmage kick down (other than kick catch interference) when K will not be next to put the ball in play.

If K during a scrimmage kick is flagged for a illegal formation, R has the right to have the 5 yards "tacked on" at the succeeding spot.  Since this was a live ball foul before the kick (& part of the loose ball play), doesn't K also lose the right to replay the down since the foul occurred before the kick (K will replay the down if enforced from the previous spot)?

[KDJBBBJ]

R can choose to have the 5 yards tacked on and have a 1 & 10 there or they could have K replay the down from 5 yards back of the previous spot.  There is no loss of down on this penalty. If it was 4 & 5 from the K 25 and R wanted to have it rekicked then it would be 4 & 10 from the K 20.

[CalhounLJ]

I think what he is saying is that if R decides to accept the foul at the succeeding spot, K has effectively lost the right to replay the down. Which is true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bama_stripes]

No loss of down since K will not be next to put the ball in play if the penalty is tacked on.

[brettjr2005]

It's not a loss of down, it's an exception that allows succeeding spot enforcement.  The important thing about this not being the same as a loss of down is that if a team had 3rd and a country mile and decided to try a surprise punt to flip the field, then a loss of down foul would make it 4th down and K would still have the ball.  That's not the case here.  True, the exception does take away the ability to replay the down, but that's because it allows succeeding spot enforcement, not because it carries a loss of down.

[bossman72]

I would not say this traditional "succeeding spot" enforcement (live ball treated as dead ball).  I say this because if you have a tack-on foul to end the period, and it's accepted, we would extend the period.

[Ralph Damren]

I would not say this traditional "succeeding spot" enforcement (live ball treated as dead ball).  I say this because if you have a tack-on foul to end the period, and it's accepted, we would extend the period.

I would say that I agree with what Bossman says.

[FeetballRef]

Good discussion on the original question.  Since this scrimmage kick EXCEPTION is not a traditional "succeeding spot" enforcement (live ball treated as dead ball) because R has the option to do a "replay down" option or a "not to replay the down option", it does carry the "losing the right to replay the down (LOD)" as part of the enforcement.  No other "tack on yardage" situations have this options.   In my opinion the 10-4-EXCEPTION should contain==>

"10-4-EXCEPTION: The basic spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the succeeding spot (includes loss of down) for fouls by K during a free or scrimmage kick down (other than kick catch interference) when K will not be next to put the ball in play".

This way all of the live ball & double foul enforcement's that appear through out the rule book are then consistent.

[Ralph Damren]

The feeling has been that K , by kicking, has given up the ball. This is the reasoning behind the PSK & tack-on rule.

[bigjohn]

I really think it a bunch of bovine excrement! If R takes the ball IF should not be tacked on. It had no bearing on the play at all and R should just decline and take the ball. If they want to make them kick over, walk it off and proceed.