Author Topic: Measurement Mechanics  (Read 4782 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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Measurement Mechanics
« on: January 14, 2018, 03:04:04 PM »
Just watched a measurement in the Steelers-Jaguars game.  I have been waiting for literal years to see the Back Judge hold the ball from the offense end of the ball, and it was done today.  Awesome.  That is the best way to do it.  Why?  Because it is the only way that ensures both the press box/TV and the Referee get completely unobstructed views of the measurement.  With this technique, the B’s arm (for the hand holding the ball) does not cross the forward stake (as it does when the B is on the defensive end of the ball), completely eliminating any chance that the arm obstructs the view. Also, if the stake/chains are always placed on the press box side of the ball, and the R views the measurement from opposite the press box (facing the press box), then the press box/TV gets a fully unobstructed view.
That’s the way to do it.

Some years ago (2010 or 2011), our coordinator brought several NFL guys to do some on-field position training at our pre-season clinic.  Although in a distinct super-minority, I already had my crew doing it this way, because I’d been experiencing obstructed views, and saw this as the best way to eliminate that, thus, making measurements more time efficient, and more viewable by everybody.  Tony Corrente led a session on executing measurements.  I was quite pleasantly surprised when he had each of our crews perform a measurement, with the B on the offensisive end of the ball.  So, I was hopeful that I’d be seeing all NFL crews doing it that way, which would then, filter down to NCAA, etc.  Unfortunately, I haven’t seen that happen, yet.  But, with what I saw today, my hopes are renewed.

Robert


Offline bossman72

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2018, 06:15:38 PM »
I always thought the B had his back to the defense so he doesn't get in the way of the chains.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2018, 07:26:48 PM »
I always thought the B had his back to the defense so he doesn't get in the way of the chains.

How does he get in the way of the chains?

Robert

Offline Kalle

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 01:14:52 AM »
I've done this for a few years now, and if you position yourself slightly to the press box side of the ball, you are not going to get in the way.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 07:25:10 AM »
Kalle, that’s better than having the B on the defensive end of the ball, for sure.  But, it means the chains will be opposite the press box for the measurement.  The ‘preferred’ technique is to have the chains on the press box side for the measurement, which would put the B opposite the press box.  The U simply stands away from the ball (also on the offensive end of the ball) enough to take the forward stake from the chain crew as they get to the ball, then steps to the front of the ball on the press box side.  The L has marked a spot on the ground at the clip yard line, just on the press box side of the ball, for the H to set the clip.

Granted, whether the chains are on the press box side or opposite is mostly cosmetic.  On the the press box side is driven by TV, to give them a better (and more dramatic) view of the measurement.  But, with or without TV, having the B on the offensive end of the ball works best, functionally.

Robert

Offline Kalle

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 08:22:08 AM »
Kalle, that’s better than having the B on the defensive end of the ball, for sure.

I meant that I'm in the offensive side of the ball but so that the chain side of the ball is free (ie. basically only my arm is behind the ball, rest of my body is to the side, but still in the offensive backfield). Your BJ probably positioned the same way except to the chain side, so the side where the measurement is done stays free.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 10:10:25 AM »
My two - no three cents w/inflation - worth.....

Wings should run to ball when close. Ball should be spotted on their foot , never eyeballed from afar.

If play ended in side zone, bring chains to ball, not ball to hash. If short, walk both chains and ball back to hash.

I invite both captains ,by name, to join me in watching the measurement : "Capt. Bubba, Capt. Tugboat, you guys want to join me on this?"

Have DMG (downs-marker guy -gender neutral) move to location of lead pole before chains come out. Chains can now return to downs-marker, if short, then move DMG off lead pole as necessary.

If the runner ended up holding the ball at an angle, I place my hat at the foremost tip then rotate ball before measurement.

There are several "chain tricks" that can be used with penalty enforcement to determine if a new series will occur .

Of all the gripes I've heard from coaches over the years, the most common one is : "...We got some really bad spots  >:( !!"

IMHO, the few minutes of game time added to ensure we did our best is well worth it.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 10:44:25 AM »
I meant that I'm in the offensive side of the ball but so that the chain side of the ball is free (ie. basically only my arm is behind the ball, rest of my body is to the side, but still in the offensive backfield). Your BJ probably positioned the same way except to the chain side, so the side where the measurement is done stays free.

I suspect we are very much on the same page.  The goal is to give the press box/TV and the Referee a clear and unobstructed view of the ball and the front stake, as the front stake is pulled to the nose of the ball.  Preferably, the stake/chains would be placed alongside the ball on the press box side, and the B is holding the ball on the opposite side of the ball, on the offensive end of the ball, and at some angle toward the sideline, to keep the area around the ball as clear as possible.  That was precisely how it was done in the Steelers-Jaguars game.

Robert



Offline clearwall

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 10:48:06 AM »
We're talking something like this, yeah?


Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 04:43:43 PM »
Yes, assuming the pressbox is to the top of the image.  At the moment the chains are stretched tight, this is what is would look like.  In a crew of 5, though, at that point, the L should be securing a replacement ball (unless the ball being measured is already at the true succeeding spot), instead of standing around the rear stake.  But, a really sharp L would hustle and get the replacement ball before he moved to mark the clip spot for the H.  Then he'll be there, waiting with the ball near the true succeeding spot to hand to the R to place at the right spot, after they've relocated the chains to the hash mark (or wherever inside the hashes).  (In a crew of 7 or 8, the F or S generally have this responsibility.)

Some people may be concerned that the forward stake will have to go around the B when coming in from the sideline.  Yes, it will.  So what?  No big deal.  The U stands next to the B (toward the offense) while the chains are being brought out.  The guy holding the front stake brings it to the U, the U then takes the front stake and moves to the front end of the ball (on the pressbox side of the ball), waits until the H says he is ready for the chain to be pulled, then gently pulls the chains taut, sets the stake down, and the R - with an unobstructed view - makes the ruling.

If the ball is short of the line-to-gain, and the chain needs to be used to locate the ball at the true succeeding spot, the R grabs the chain firmly, in line with the forward end of the measured ball, leaves the B holding the measured ball, then moves to the hash mark.  When the measurement is outside the hash marks to the pressbox side of the field, yes, the R and U will have to step around the B (still holding the ball) to move to the hash mark, or raise it over the B.  Again, no big deal.  But always - ALWAYS - leave the measured ball on the ground where it was measured until the replacement ball is successfully and correctly located at the true succeeding spot.  If the chain should break or the R loses his grip on the chain, then you can always return to the measured ball and regain the correct location.

As always, lots of words to describe fairly simple techniques.

Robert




 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 07:12:06 AM by ElvisLives »

Offline Etref

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 04:49:04 PM »
That explanation should be in the mechanics manual
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 08:48:57 AM »
Yes, assuming the pressbox is to the top of the image.  At the moment the chains are stretched tight, this is what is would look like.  In a crew of 5, though, at that point, the L should be securing a replacement ball (unless the ball being measured is already at the true succeeding spot), instead of standing around the rear stake.  But, a really sharp L would hustle and get the replacement ball before he moved to mark the clip spot for the H.  Then he'll be there, waiting with the ball near the true succeeding spot to hand to the R to place at the right spot, after they've relocated the chains to the hash mark (or wherever inside the hashes).  (In a crew of 7 or 8, the F or S generally have this responsibility.)

Some people may be concerned that the forward stake will have to go around the B when coming in from the sideline.  Yes, it will.  So what?  No big deal.  The U stands next to the B (toward the offense) while the chains are being brought out.  The guy holding the front stake brings it to the U, the U then takes the front stake and moves to the front end of the ball (on the pressbox side of the ball), waits until the H says he is ready for the chain to be pulled, then gently pulls the chains taut, sets the stake down, and the R - with an unobstructed view - makes the ruling.

If the ball is short of the line-to-gain, and the chain needs to be used to locate the ball at the true succeeding spot, the R grabs the chain firmly, in line with the forward end of the measured ball, leaves the B holding the measured ball, then moves to the hash mark.  When the measurement is outside the hash marks to the pressbox side of the field, yes, the R and U will have to step around the B (still holding the ball) to move to the hash mark, or raise it over the B.  Again, no big deal.  But always - ALWAYS - leave the measured ball on the ground where it was measured until the replacement ball is successfully and correctly located at the true succeeding spot.  If the chain should break or the R loses his grip on the chain, then you can always return to the measured ball and regain the correct location.

As always, lots of words to describe fairly simple techniques.

Robert

I worked with a really good referee for 4-5 years that had a saying about measurements.  I don't remember the exact wording, but it basically said that nothing should ever cross on a measurement. For instance, you have the pressbox, then the ball (with the B holding it), then the chains, then the referee.  No one has to go around someone else.  The chain doesn't have to go around or over the B.  The pressbox has an unobstructed view if the F or S is doing their job.  What are the negatives to this, if any?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Measurement Mechanics
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 10:21:03 PM »
Either way, the primary goal of a measurement, i.e., to determine if the ball reached the line-to-gain, gets satisfied.  But the secondary goal of the measurement mechanics is to present the measurement as publicly as possible, for the benefit of the press box and TV.  Yes, much of the presented technique is generated to make the measurement more visible and dramatic for television.  The same is true for the R’s field mic, and how well-trained R’s make announcements with the mic.  All driven by TV.  (All levels of football were without the field mic until sometime in the 70’s, until the NFL started with it, for TV.).
The presented technique works perfectly for all levels of the game, with or without a press box, with or without TV.  So, why would we not want to adopt it all across the board?  Then, everyone will know how to execute a measurement that satisfies everyone’s needs, whether a JV game or the Super Bowl.

The presented technique assures that neither the R nor the press box/tv have an obstructed view. If the B is on the defensive end of the ball, his arm will ‘cross’ the forward stake, obstructing either the R’s view or the press box/tv view of the nose of the ball and front stake (depending on which side of the ball the B positions himself).  If he is on the offensive end of the ball, and opposite the press box, then he doesn’t get in anybody’s way.
If the chain is dropped on the press box side of the ball, it stays in view at all times, and makes the measurement a bit more dramatic and “photogenic” (for lack of a better word).

Always ask why and question logic and purpose.  I would ask, “What is so bad about people/things going around each other?”  As demonstrated in the Steelers-Jaguars game, the presented technique does not seem to present any problem, and accomplishes the goals of 1) determining if the ball reached the line-to-gain, and 2) make it as clear and transparent as possible for the press box/tv.

As the old commercial used to say, “Try it.  You’ll like it.”

Robert
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 01:00:48 PM by ElvisLives »