Author Topic: SOC grievance to be filed  (Read 1374 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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SOC grievance to be filed
« on: December 21, 2023, 12:21:24 PM »
Somewhat surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet... SOC vs PNG.

https://www.12newsnow.com/article/sports/high-school/hs-football/south-oak-cliff-state-chamionship-grievance-uil/287-45a42cdf-e7f5-4503-a336-75e17e753aea?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_12NewsNow&fbclid=IwAR0BwGNP41X40sMwzMGt_woC-djjh5BNdBYQWRD91YLMCXhBDTuyGKi0VtE

What the article doesn't mention, is WHY they might be filing a grievance (if that's even possible?  I don't know.) It has nothing to do with the call (there's the video of the call, which makes it look like a bad call, until you see the screenshot from as-yet-unreleased video that clearly shows a grab and restrict/slingshot).  While this was a Houston crew, one of the crew members actually resides in the town of Port Neches, and that was not disclosed to the SOC coach, who in a video interview, said he absolutely wouldn't have used them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9FWG07qcM0

(what's really wild, around 1:28 mark, is that he said he wants officials who consistently call games with inner city black kids, who 'can get really physical and know how to handle them.') Which is a conversation in and of itself.

back to the game though, while not a conflict with TASO policy, IMO there is a valid perception problem with an official being from the same town as one of the teams, and not disclosing it. (And I'm not talking about an entire crew, such as if Canyon made the championship and both coaches agreed to an Amarillo crew (unlikely, but possible) - in that case it's obvious where the crew is from.

And I can't fault the crew for not saying something - they're within the lines of the conflict policy, and who in their right mind would willingly give up a championship game assignment? But someone outside the crew knew... and then someone (coach or official, no idea who has access) took a screenshot of the official's information, blacked out his address except for the town, and shared it on social media, where, I think it's entirely reasonable to assume, he has been harassed and most likely threatened (and he wasn't even the official on the DPI call!) And even a few Texas coaches were getting on the bandwagon, with one even sayin 'they need to find that guy'. 

TASO isn't known for transparency on anything, but it will be interesting to see if this sparks any changes around the conflict of interest policy, and any changes for dealing with coaches and schools who publicly advocate for intimidation or incitement of violence against officials - IMO TASO should scratch the school indefinitely, otherwise tolerance is viewed as acceptance and permission.

I know there's a lot to unpack here but love to hear some more thoughts on any of these storylines.

Offline Covid 22

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2023, 02:33:25 PM »
The coach is full of "something."   There are legitimate reasons for some crews (even outstanding crews) to not be considered for games at this level.   A crew that calls mostly 6-man wouldn't be a good choice for this level.   A West Texas crew that that called 10 games with a total of 5 passes combined might not be the right crew.    But to say an exceptional crew from San Antonio, Waco, Central Texas or anywhere in Texas should not be chosen because they don't call games with inner city "kids" is stupid.   He approved of this crew and he had every right to ask if anyone in the crew lived in PNG, Waco , San Antonio or Louisiana (or anywhere else he thought might actually be against inner city players).   His comments are inappropriate and unsportsmanlike.

The Houston chapter and the R should also not have accepted the game.   This crew had obviously called other state championship games.  With the knowledge that one member of the crew lived in PNG, it presents the perception of a possible conflict.   At the least, the R should have replaced this official (which we all know that Houston has at least 100 more that are more than qualified to fill-in).     

It is a shame that this is even a "thing" but Deion S brings a lot of this into inner city coaches.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2023, 03:53:22 PM »
one of the crew members actually resides in the town of Port Neches, and that was not disclosed to the SOC coach, who in a video interview, said he absolutely wouldn't have used them.

If he'd won, he wouldn't care.
We simply have to get the institutions out of the official selection process. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2023, 06:39:20 AM »
THE PROBLEM WITH WORKING A GAME INVOLVING A SCHOOL YOU HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH :

If you make a bad call in favor of that school = you're a HOMER  pi1eOn  >:( hEaDbAnG  :puke:

If you make a bad call in favor of the opponents = you're a VILLIAN  pi1eOn >:( hEaDbAnG :puke:

YOU CAN'T WIN EITHER WAY, DON'T WORK JUST WATCH tR:oLl
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 10:53:04 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2023, 11:50:07 AM »
THE PROBLEM WITH WORKING A GAME INVOLVING A SCHOOL YOU HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH :

If you make a bad call in favor of that school = you're a HOMER  pi1eOn  >:( hEaDbAnG  :puke:

If you make a bad call in favor of the opponents = you're a VILLIAN  pi1eOn >:( hEaDbAnG :puke:

YOU CAN'T WIN EITHER WAY, DON'T WORK JUST WATCH tR:oLl

Makes you wonder, why recently do we allow one, really stupid, voice to so often silence the majority of (hopefully) rational voices?  Is there any logic to the notion that any/every Official, who may happen to reside in an area, who's School makes it to a Playoff/Championship level would automatically abandon a career of impartial excellence, that EARNED them a Playoff/Championship assignment.

Such complaints/ suspicions/ unsubstantiated warnings say FAR MORE about the character (or lack thereof), of the complainer, than the target of the complaint.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2023, 03:26:11 PM »
The coach is full of "something."   There are legitimate reasons for some crews (even outstanding crews) to not be considered for games at this level.   A crew that calls mostly 6-man wouldn't be a good choice for this level.   A West Texas crew that that called 10 games with a total of 5 passes combined might not be the right crew.    But to say an exceptional crew from San Antonio, Waco, Central Texas or anywhere in Texas should not be chosen because they don't call games with inner city "kids" is stupid.   He approved of this crew and he had every right to ask if anyone in the crew lived in PNG, Waco , San Antonio or Louisiana (or anywhere else he thought might actually be against inner city players).   His comments are inappropriate and unsportsmanlike.

The Houston chapter and the R should also not have accepted the game.   This crew had obviously called other state championship games.  With the knowledge that one member of the crew lived in PNG, it presents the perception of a possible conflict.   At the least, the R should have replaced this official (which we all know that Houston has at least 100 more that are more than qualified to fill-in).     

It is a shame that this is even a "thing" but Deion S brings a lot of this into inner city coaches.

'A crew that calls mostly 6-man wouldn't be a good choice for this level.'
I strongly disagree with this.  In fact, you're essentially agreeing with the SOC coach, just for differing reasons.  Six-man has its quirks, for sure, but based on your logic one need only look at how one of the six man games was officiated to recognize that crews that never call six man, should never, ever be given six-man championship games.

There is a assumption that I see statewide, particularly in metro chapters, that 6-man football isn't 'real' football.  It's as real as it gets, it's just a little different. It's absurd to say that a crew that works primarily six man wouldn't be able to 'handle' an 11-man championship game.  If anything, six man is more challenging because your field of vision and responsibilities are much wider - 7 man officiating is a daydream compared to a competitive six-man game, not to mention the ability to move quickly and react, which for be a challenge for some of the officials I saw working 11-man championship games.

'A West Texas crew that that called 10 games with a total of 5 passes combined might not be the right crew'
Another very odd perception - that West Texas football isn't as good, as real, or competitive as metro area football.  There's literally no crew in the entire state that would call 10 games with 5 passes, or anything even remotely close to that. But again, it's a common misperception.

'The Houston chapter and the R should also not have accepted the game.'
Based on what? There' no provision in the conflict of interest policy that would prohibit this... that's like saying if Lubbock High made it to the Championship game, (and coaches agreed on this, obviously) that all Lubbock crews are disqualified from calling that game.  There' already enough imbalance in chapters that get vs chapters that don't, and sure there might be an optics issue but I'm not going to impugne any official - including the one from PNG - just based on where he lives.

And why would the Houston chapter have declined the championship?  Wouldn't SET (Southeast Texas Chapter) out of Beaumont be their home chapter?

My biggest peeve in all of this is that TASO had a GOLDEN opportunity to make a statement condemning the actions of the coach who said on social media 'they need to find that guy' regarding the call.  You couldn't ask for a better example of potentially putting officials in harm's way, and is indicative of how officials are not respected by coaches, because they have the power to pick crews. TASO has indicated that this is acceptable behavior by not condemning it and making an example of that school/coach.  I'd be 100% in favor of no officials working Brookshire-Royal's games of any type until the coach publicly apologized.  So disappointing that TASO didn't step up to the plate here.


Just my thoughts, sorry I'm argumentative today.

Offline TxBJ

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2023, 04:07:51 PM »
It shouldnít be up to TASO to make a statement about the coach on social media. It should come from the UIL in the form of a reprimand for those that exhibited that behavior.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2023, 05:11:31 PM »
Absolutely UIL should - but reprimands (AFAIK) aren't really made public. This was an opportunity for TASO to highlight abuse of officials, which is well within their lane, especially when UIL doesn't do anything.

Offline jra104

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2024, 08:50:56 PM »
WOW. WHAT A WAY TO DISPLAY VICTIMHOOD.  We wonder why some kids feel like the world is against them. Claude Mathis should be the one investigated. You donít need officials that know how to handle inner city kids what you need is a coach to accept responsibility.  How about NOT GRABBING A WR IN THIER ROUTE. FREAKING MAN THE F UP. How about, my player got handsy he got caught and thatís it. Thatís the freaking lesson to learn here. Not blaming the crew from the biggest damn inner city Texas has to offer in Houston.
Rant over.

Offline TxBJ

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2024, 08:56:05 PM »
Absolutely UIL should - but reprimands (AFAIK) aren't really made public. This was an opportunity for TASO to highlight abuse of officials, which is well within their lane, especially when UIL doesn't do anything.

The UIL does issue public reprimands.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2024, 08:59:48 PM »
I'm not going to deal with this game specifically as I know things about one particular school district and one particular school in question. I won't comment about either, but I will say that, without giving any credibility to the allegations in this mess, UIL needs to take control over state championship game assignments (and playoff in general, at least past the third round or so) and stop letting coaches flip for "their" crews. It is ridiculous that when a Dallas area school plays a Houston area school (for example) you get either a Houston or Dallas crew -- because the flip went one way or the other. The Dallas area school won and picked "their" favorite crew or same with Houston. That's ridiculous. It has nothing to do with the crews, but it is bad perceptually. You're watching the game knowing nothing about how these things work and wondering why the Houston chapter has North Shore vs. Duncanville. That's how conspiracy theories arise.

Those games should be given to chapters who assign the crews. Give this particular game to College Station. Or Austin. Or Lubbock. Hell, give it to Lower Botswana if they have a chapter that pays dues for all I care. It has nothing to do with a chapter getting too many games. Houston and Dallas will get plenty of chances with other schools outside of their area.

People have to realize that while WE know WE don't care about who's playing who (at least, for the most part), everyone else thinks we're on the take and any call that goes against their school is motivated by us cheating. Now, maybe a large part of that should be handled with education, but even that isn't going to go far. Stick a remote crew in this game and "concerns" like this become a farce.


Offline billhpro1

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Re: SOC grievance to be filed
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2024, 09:56:07 AM »
As Past President of Gulf Coast Chapter in the early 1980s, I worked with the Houston Chapter very many times. In the 1990s Houston took in the Gulf Coast Chapter as well as several other chapters and now is probably the largest chapter in TASO. The current secretary in Houston is an ACC official and worked the National Championship last year so his resume should be beyond question.  As to the SOC coach, he used only Houston and Dallas chapters in all his playoff games. He should have received a chapter membership roster from Houston with all crews listed with pictures of each crew member listed and all HOME ADDRESSES OF EACH OFFICIAL.   If  SOC coach had any questions then was the time to ask. I assume that he had no questions in the prior two years since HE won!!!!!!

Offline TXMike

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