Author Topic: Football Game Officials Manual  (Read 25821 times)

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Offline biltheref

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Football Game Officials Manual
« on: February 10, 2016, 08:52:55 PM »
I have seen that several states publish their own Mechanics Manual.  In NH we use the NFHS Manual with a few exceptions.  I am curious why some states feel the need to "reinvent the wheel"?  I understand the states using 6 officials need something more.  For you guys in those states that make your own, can you give me some of your thoughts behind it?

Thanks

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 08:17:41 AM »
In Maine, we use the manual without any exceptions. I'm not in favor of trying to reinvent the wheel and, having seen the process, realize that a lot of discussion goes into any additions/changes. INHO, once you begin to make exceptions;  it sometimes becomes an exception when an exception is not asked for. Your state rep, Steve Hall, is very well respected and would only make exceptions that he felt were for the betterment of the game. Please listen to him.

Being the only state that borders the fine state of Maine, may I add a couple of hockey slogans aimed at your fine Granite State :

WE'VE GOT TWO, HOW ABOUT YOU?

UNH = UNIVERSITY  of   NO  HARDWARE

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Offline LAZebra

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 11:01:24 AM »
In Alabama, we have our own manual.  I will refrain from discussing why I believe we have our own, because doing so would likely violate the rules of this forum.  I, personally, would not have any problem with Alabama using the NFHS manual instead.

Does the NFHS Manual include 7-man mechanics?
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Offline bossman72

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 12:09:42 PM »
At least from my experience, the NFHS manual is sometimes just awful and outdated.  Usually does not keep up with the times and is 20 years behind on what is currently being taught.  I seen this when I worked NFHS baseball too.  Sometimes the mechanics are kept the same "because high school" and not necessarily because they are better mechanics.  Then, the committee is stubborn to change it if someone proposes a more modern approach to something.

LAZebra - NFHS manual only has 4 and 5 man mechanics.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
In Alabama, we have our own manual.  I will refrain from discussing why I believe we have our own, because doing so would likely violate the rules of this forum.  I, personally, would not have any problem with Alabama using the NFHS manual instead.

Does the NFHS Manual include 7-man mechanics?

The AHSAA started their own manual for several reasons:

(1)  The NFHS Manual is only published biannually;
(2)  NFHS has no 7-man mechanics (AHSAA also included 6-man mechanics for a couple of years);
(3)  Up-to-date positioning for all officials, especially on kick plays.

There may be more, but I'm sure about those three.

Offline SouthGARef

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2016, 10:31:57 AM »
Georgia has it's own manual. While we do run six man mostly here, I believe 5-man is still permitted and still used at a few schools.

Georgia does things its own way. We have our own mechanics, we have our own rules (see the infamous BBW rule here), we have our own rules tests.

Offline KWH

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2016, 01:12:06 PM »
At least from my experience, the NFHS manual is sometimes just awful and outdated.  Usually does not keep up with the times and is 20 years behind on what is currently being taught.  I seen this when I worked NFHS baseball too.  Sometimes the mechanics are kept the same "because high school" and not necessarily because they are better mechanics.  Then, the committee is stubborn to change it if someone proposes a more modern approach to something.

LAZebra - NFHS manual only has 4 and 5 man mechanics.

Bossman - An honest effort is being made to bring the NFHS Football Manual up to date.
I would be interested in your thoughts/opinions on the 2016/2017 Version which is being finalized.

PS While it is true that the manual is only printed in even years, the manual committee will accept change proposals for consideration year round.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2016, 03:59:56 PM »
Bossman - An honest effort is being made to bring the NFHS Football Manual up to date.
I would be interested in your thoughts/opinions on the 2016/2017 Version which is being finalized.

PS While it is true that the manual is only printed in even years, the manual committee will accept change proposals for consideration year round.
Is it still going to be 5 man mechanics only?

Offline KWH

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2016, 02:38:59 PM »
Is it still going to be 5 man mechanics only?

NFHS 2016 and 2017 Officials Manual will continue to have 4-man and 5-man mechanics only.
No 3, 6, 7 or 8.

However, your neighbors to the west print there own 7-man version and it is available on line! 
Try this link:

http://www.ahsaa.com/Portals/0/Officials/2015%20Football%20manual.pdf
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Offline VALJ

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 09:23:41 AM »
I don't believe that VHSL has mechanics in place statewide. Our association has had our own mechanics manuals the entire time I've been doing this. It used to be 4 and 5 man manuals; now we have 5 and 7 man manuals, with a list of modifications for the rare case that we work 6 man as well.

stevestod

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 12:36:49 PM »

In Vermont we use the NFHS mechanics manual for 4 man and 5 man.  During playoffs we use the PIAA 6 man manual, which have been using for the last 10 years.
 

Offline biltheref

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2016, 07:55:14 PM »
At least from my experience, the NFHS manual is sometimes just awful and outdated.  Usually does not keep up with the times and is 20 years behind on what is currently being taught.  I seen this when I worked NFHS baseball too.  Sometimes the mechanics are kept the same "because high school" and not necessarily because they are better mechanics.  Then, the committee is stubborn to change it if someone proposes a more modern approach to something.

LAZebra - NFHS manual only has 4 and 5 man mechanics.

Bossman,

Can you give me an example or two of a mechanic that has not kept up with the times?  I understand that given the size of NH high schools compared to other states, NH high school football may not be the same as in bigger states with many larger high schools.  Thanks

Offline bossman72

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 08:58:53 AM »
Bossman,

Can you give me an example or two of a mechanic that has not kept up with the times?  I understand that given the size of NH high schools compared to other states, NH high school football may not be the same as in bigger states with many larger high schools.  Thanks

Off the top of my head:

1) Auxiliary signals are not permitted (the "catch" signal, tapping the ground on a pass that skips in, etc).
2) Prelim signals are not permitted by the calling official when he runs into the R.
3) Manual continues to state that the captain must be consulted for penalty options instead of going to the coach or enforcing the foul yourself if the choice is obvious (eg: 15 yard FMM on the defense).
4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
5) R is required to give preliminary signals.  They should be optional and only given if there is a choice that needs made.
6) Wing officials not going in at an angle to the R on pre-snap fouls.  If the U has a flag, they should meet in the offensive backfield.
7) R's alignment is too tight to the offensive formation instead of being wide.
8) R's alignment is too close to the LOS on punt plays.  Should be behind the kicker.

Offline Tom.OH

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 06:22:07 AM »
Off the top of my head:

1) Auxiliary signals are not permitted (the "catch" signal, tapping the ground on a pass that skips in, etc).
2) Prelim signals are not permitted by the calling official when he runs into the R.
3) Manual continues to state that the captain must be consulted for penalty options instead of going to the coach or enforcing the foul yourself if the choice is obvious (eg: 15 yard FMM on the defense).
4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
5) R is required to give preliminary signals.  They should be optional and only given if there is a choice that needs made.
6) Wing officials not going in at an angle to the R on pre-snap fouls.  If the U has a flag, they should meet in the offensive backfield.
7) R's alignment is too tight to the offensive formation instead of being wide.
8) R's alignment is too close to the LOS on punt plays.  Should be behind the kicker.

Some on this board are critical of Ohio Gold Book mechanics, but we do all of the 8 points Bossman listed.
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Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 08:24:59 AM »
Off the top of my head:

1) Auxiliary signals are not permitted (the "catch" signal, tapping the ground on a pass that skips in, etc).
2) Prelim signals are not permitted by the calling official when he runs into the R.
3) Manual continues to state that the captain must be consulted for penalty options instead of going to the coach or enforcing the foul yourself if the choice is obvious (eg: 15 yard FMM on the defense).
4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
5) R is required to give preliminary signals.  They should be optional and only given if there is a choice that needs made.
6) Wing officials not going in at an angle to the R on pre-snap fouls.  If the U has a flag, they should meet in the offensive backfield.
7) R's alignment is too tight to the offensive formation instead of being wide.
8) R's alignment is too close to the LOS on punt plays.  Should be behind the kicker.

My take on Bossman's list :

(1) There are some recommended crew signals on pg. 23 (14-15 version) with room for expansion - note: 11 players signal was added this year. Make suggestions, if you wish.

(2)The concern is dueling flags on different calls can cause confusion if calling officials are seeing things differently. Best for white hat to confer first than signal.

(3)The manual is only supporting 10-1-1 which requires a captain's decision. I proposed making it the coach's call a few years ago and was shot down bad. NFHS stance : This is a learning experience for the captains and coach can verbally yell instructions if necessary. IMHO, if it's something confusing, bring captain within ear shot of coach so he can hear your explanation and respond to capt.

(4) Mic refs can now announce number of fouling player.

(5) IMHO, preliminary signals take the mystery out of what the call was and enables the PA to alert the frenzied masses. IMHO, Dead ball fouls, where no captain's discussion is needed, does not need a prelim.

(6) Agreed. Wings are usually more spry than whitehats.

(7) Agreed, our main job is to stay out of the way.

(8) Agreed, see # 7
 


Offline bossman72

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 10:54:18 AM »
Quote
(2)The concern is dueling flags on different calls can cause confusion if calling officials are seeing things differently. Best for white hat to confer first than signal.

If officials are throwing on pre-snap fouls, and there is more than one flag, then no prelim should be given.  If you are the only flag down, then you should give a prelim.  I think the manual can state that and I don't think that's too hard for officials.

Quote
(3)The manual is only supporting 10-1-1 which requires a captain's decision. I proposed making it the coach's call a few years ago and was shot down bad. NFHS stance : This is a learning experience for the captains and coach can verbally yell instructions if necessary. IMHO, if it's something confusing, bring captain within ear shot of coach so he can hear your explanation and respond to capt.

The manual and the rule need updated to make it optional to ask a captain or a coach.

Quote
(5) IMHO, preliminary signals take the mystery out of what the call was and enables the PA to alert the frenzied masses.

That's exactly why I HATE prelim signals.  As the R, with a flag down, you have the entire stadium in the palm of your hand waiting with anticipation.  As soon as you point to a team, they quit paying attention and the suspense lifts.  Then, when you make your real announcement, nobody is listening or cares.

Offline KWH

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 11:21:21 AM »

The manual and the rule need updated to make it optional to ask a captain or a coach.


With all due respct, many of us agree with you!
However there is only one way to change a rule which is why Ralph submitted a Rule Change for the committees consideration.
The committee agreed the current rule was sufficient and voted it down.
This does not mean, since you like it better, you can ignore the wishes of the committee, set the Rules Book aside, and do whatever you damn well see fit.  By doing so you are simply not following the Playing Rules you were hired to enforce.
A better method would be to continue to blitz the committee with a multi-state rule change proposal each year, with Really good, thought-out, well written, Rationales until they finally make the change.
Ignoring the Rules Book will never solve the issue.
 
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 11:40:30 AM »
Ignoring the Rules Book will never solve the issue.
It did for Intentional Pass Interference.  ;D

Offline bossman72

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 12:07:31 PM »
With all due respct, many of us agree with you!
However there is only one way to change a rule which is why Ralph submitted a Rule Change for the committees consideration.
The committee agreed the current rule was sufficient and voted it down.
This does not mean, since you like it better, you can ignore the wishes of the committee, set the Rules Book aside, and do whatever you DARN well see fit.  By doing so you are simply not following the Playing Rules you were hired to enforce.
A better method would be to continue to blitz the committee with a multi-state rule change proposal each year, with Really good, thought-out, well written, Rationales until they finally make the change.
Ignoring the Rules Book will never solve the issue.
 

I agree we need to officiate as the manual states.  Which brings me back to my original post that the manual is outdated and refuses to change with the times.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 01:26:22 PM »
Which brings me back to my original post that the manual is outdated and refuses to change with the times.
And is the reason many states have created their own officiating manuals.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 11:53:16 AM »
And is the reason many states have created their own officiating manuals.

Effective consistency doesn't require everyone doing everything exactly alike, that would be a description of "robotic".  The NFHS Officials Manual is a compilation of strongly recommended mechanics, that have tried and proven over countless applications and certified to appropriately address the various functions described.

That doesn't prevent organizations from adding, or amending designated actions to adjustments they feel improves THEIR SITUATION.  Many of those alterations fit different locals, are observed, tested and found to be beneficial to the successful operation and management of games in their area, and in the absence of violating any existing rules are adopted, or even additionally adjusted by other organizations.

Some previous adjustments have been copied by a majority of organizations, in "keeping pace with the times" other suggestions, although reasonable and workable are rejected as adoptions by many organizations.  Some adjustments and modifications are absolutely brilliant for 6 or 7 man crews, but lose some luster when applied to 5 or 4 man configurations.

Some recommendations simply do not, nor should, apply to Interscholastic level sports, although they are beneficial at higher levels.  A case in point would be the NFHS intent of teaching and instilling leadership experience of Team Captains, by giving them the responsibility of being consulted and deciding penalty options.  For multiple decades, seasoned Referees have avoided unnecessary confusion problems by simply, and inconspicuously, guiding Captains near their Head Coaches when discussing more complicated options, so Coaches are aware of the options given and readily available to offer guidance.

Coaches who insist on being the single, or primary, point of contact for these decisions can focus on coaching at higher levels, where developing leadership skills may not be as high a priority, of the larger audience.  A very little application of practical and common sense readily allows a Referee to easily address both the leadership instruction target and avoid unnecessary confusion and inaccurate decisions concerns while following both the letter and intent of the NFHS rule. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 11:56:36 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline KWH

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Intentional Pass Interference
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2016, 10:55:19 AM »
It did for Intentional Pass Interference.  ;D

Yep AB - No argument here!
However, Intentional Pass Interference is a Rule rather than a mechanic and it is still in the Rules Book
I would agree Intentional Pass Interference needs further clarification as quite frankly, I do not know what it is as there is no NFHS definition.
If a defender is positioned between an eligible receiver and the passer, with his back to the passer and is waving his hands in the face of the receiver (See 7.5.10 SIT C) NFHS says we only have PI.
Should a coach asks, "How did you determine that waving you hands is NOT intentional"? I DO NOT have an answer, other than to say we don't interpret it that way.
I find it comparable to an Intentional foul in BasketBall. "hey ref, I am going to foul this guy as soon as he touches the ball on the throw in, please be quick on your whistle.  That is not an intentional act?  Well yes of course it is but it is not interpreted that way.

Perhaps the Rules Book needs to find a different word than "Intentional"

PS: If I recall, there was at one time, many moos ago,  a Case Book play that had Intentional PI as the ruling. I could be wrong. Anybody else remember that? Ralph?
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Offline LAZebra

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2016, 02:43:27 PM »
I think, for most of us, if a receiver is incredibly wide open for a definite touchdown  and is mugged/tackled by the defender in desperation from behind, we might consider intentional DPI.  The reality is that if a receiver is that wide open, the defender is unlikely to get close enough to him to commit intentional DPI.  That is the primary reason it is seldom if ever called. IMHO
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Offline prab

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Re: Football Game Officials Manual
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2016, 06:52:41 PM »
I have NEVER seen Intentional Pass Interference called.  Has anyone else?  If so, please describe the circumstances.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Intentional Pass Interference
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2016, 07:26:35 PM »

I I DO NOT have an answer, other than to say we don't interpret it that way.
I find it comparable to an Intentional foul in BasketBall. "hey ref, I am going to foul this guy as soon as he touches the ball on the throw in, please be quick on your whistle.  That is not an intentional act?  Well yes of course it is but it is not interpreted that way.

Perhaps the Rules Book needs to find a different word than "Intentional"

It seems reasonable to infer, that invoking the Intentional PI rule, calling for an additional 15 yard penalty, would require an unusually flagrant, or otherwise outrageous act, beyond what is normally associated with PI, which is what makes this call so exceptional. 

That would be a judgment call, as seen and determined, exclusively, by the calling official. A polite, respectful response to that effect would be an appropriate answer to most serious inquiries, none of which  requires concurrence, or agreement, by the questioner.

Expanding the rules to specifically accommodate any and all potential observations from bystanders would require a multi volume library, which serves no discernible benefit, as the intention clearly is that the judgment of the calling official prevails in such matters.