Author Topic: Holding DURING a Fumble  (Read 3368 times)

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Offline refjimb

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Holding DURING a Fumble
« on: September 20, 2018, 09:43:06 AM »
Team A fumbles, and while the ball is still loose a player from team B wraps up an A player (bear hug) and prevents him from getting to the loose ball.

Had this play last week and I threw a flag for holding and was then overruled by my R and U.  Have looked in the rule book but can't find support for there not being a foul here? 


Offline FLAHL

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 09:48:29 AM »
Team A fumbles, and while the ball is still loose a player from team B wraps up an A player (bear hug) and prevents him from getting to the loose ball.

Had this play last week and I threw a flag for holding and was then overruled by my R and U.  Have looked in the rule book but can't find support for there not being a foul here? 


I've never really understood this one either.  The excerpt from the rule book is below (2-3-4 and 2-3-5), but how can you "pull" without holding?

“An offensive player may also use his hands or arms:

a. When he is a runner, to ward off or push any player.

b. During a kick, to ward off an opponent who is attempting to block him.

c. To push, pull or ward off an opponent when the ball is loose if he may legally touch or possess the ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of hands.

ART. 5 . . . A defensive player may also:

a. Use unlocked hands, hand or arm to ward off an opponent who is blocking him or is attempting to block him.

b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of hands.”
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:52:13 AM by FLAHL »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 09:49:48 AM »
They were probably thinking of 2-3-5, but if they made you pick up the flag, I'd ask them to provide you the rule support...
Also, this is one of those "you had to be there" type of plays. There's no way of knowing whether the call was right without having seen it. a player can push, pull, or ward off another player while the ball is loose, but that doesn't prevent a call for illegal use of hands

Offline refjimb

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 09:56:55 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  I feel like this was more of a "pull" on my play, so I suppose it's technically legal based on 2-3-5.  Does seem odd though (at least to me).

Offline dch

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 11:51:10 AM »
Any player may push or pull in an actual attempt to get at a loose ball that he may legally recover.  BUT, he may not hold an opponent to allow his team mate to get to the ball.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 12:27:05 PM »
b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball...

Key words in bold.  Sounds like from your play the defensive player just grabbed the offensive player so he couldn't get to the ball. There was no attempt to get to the ball by that defensive player.  Therefore, you have a foul for DH.  Enforce from spot of the fumble.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »
Key words in bold.  Sounds like from your play the defensive player just grabbed the offensive player so he couldn't get to the ball. There was no attempt to get to the ball by that defensive player.  Therefore, you have a foul for DH.  Enforce from spot of the fumble.
Agree 100% with Bossman AND remember to bean bag the fumble!

Offline brettjr2005

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 12:21:30 PM »
It's interesting that...

Defense: 2-5-b specifies an actual attempt

Offense: 2-4-c does not state that it must be an actual attempt

So while you still can't bear-hug them, it's interesting that by rule the offensive player can pull players away from the ball without actually making an attempt to get the ball but the defense can only do so while making an attempt to get to the ball. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Holding DURING a Fumble
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 08:43:52 AM »
It's interesting that...

Defense: 2-5-b specifies an actual attempt

Offense: 2-4-c does not state that it must be an actual attempt

So while you still can't bear-hug them, it's interesting that by rule the offensive player can pull players away from the ball without actually making an attempt to get the ball but the defense can only do so while making an attempt to get to the ball.
Good pic, Brett, sounds like a case for the Editorial Committee tiphat: !