Fair Catch

[Derek Teigen]

Hello.  In reading rule 6-5 ART 3.....'Only the receiver who gives a valid signal is afforded protection.  If, after a receiver signals, the catch is made by a teammate, it is not a fair catch but the ball becomes dead.

questions:   1.  if the ball bounces can it be possessed and advanced by R?   

2.  Is it the responsibility of the whole crew to enforce this rule?  For example, two men are deep to take the punt.  One signals a fair catch but the other catches it and advances it.  This could cause a moment of confusion and the official closest may not blow the whistle.  Can the play be brought back to the spot of the catch if the play is not blown dead as instructed by the rule book and by a conference of the crew officials if one of the other officials realizes what has happened once the play has ended?....OR can any official blow the play dead upon realization.

3.  Does first touching of the punt by K change any of the ruling on the fair catch and the ability for R to advance the ball?

[prab]

Hello.  In reading rule 6-5 ART 3.....'Only the receiver who gives a valid signal is afforded protection.  If, after a receiver signals, the catch is made by a teammate, it is not a fair catch but the ball becomes dead.

questions:   1.  if the ball bounces can it be possessed and advanced by R?   

2.  Is it the responsibility of the whole crew to enforce this rule?  For example, two men are deep to take the punt.  One signals a fair catch but the other catches it and advances it.  This could cause a moment of confusion and the official closest may not blow the whistle.  Can the play be brought back to the spot of the catch if the play is not blown dead as instructed by the rule book and by a conference of the crew officials if one of the other officials realizes what has happened once the play has ended?....OR can any official blow the play dead upon realization.

3.  Does first touching of the punt by K change any of the ruling on the fair catch and the ability for R to advance the ball? 

1.  R may possess but not advance.

2.  The ball became dead when R caught it.  The whistle, even if delayed, did not cause the ball to become dead.  Therefore the ball can (must) be brought back to the spot where R possessed it.  Delay of game by R may also apply here depending on conditions not mentioned in OP.

3.  Once R has given a fair catch signal (valid or invalid) R can possess but not advance the ball.  If there is first touching by K, that spot may be advantageous to R, but it does not give R the right to advance it if possessed AFTER giving a FC signal.  Fair catch interference may also apply here depending on circumstances not mentioned in OP.

[Derek Teigen]

Thank you prab for your response and help.

[bossman72]

1) No.  Ball is dead.

2) Yes.  Simply, if you see a signal, kill it when anybody possesses the ball.  Any official may do this.

3) No, ball is still dead upon possession.

[bama_stripes]

Not sure where you’re going with #3.  In order for K to commit First Touching, the ball must be grounded, so no FC is possible.

[CalhounLJ]

I can't speak for him, but I'm guessing he's thinking of a situation where R signals but doesn't catch the Kick. Then, after it's grounded, K first-touches. The question seems to be does this first touching wipe away R's restriction against advancing the kick because of the signal. The answer of course is No. Once R signals, the ball will be dead if/when he possesses.
At least that's what I understood.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Not sure where you’re going with #3.  In order for K to commit First Touching, the ball must be grounded, so no FC is possible.

Does a scrimmage kick actually have to be grounded for a touching by K to be first touching?

[AlUpstateNY]

Does a scrimmage kick actually have to be grounded for a touching by K to be first touching?

NO, NFHS 2-12-2 references "a" scrimmage kick, and NFHS 2-24-3 defines a "scrimmage kick" as "ANY kick during a scrimmage down.

NFHS 6-2-6 further explains "first touching" of "a" scrimmage kick without differentiating between a grounded or in flight scrimmage kick.

NFHS 6-5-6 explains Kick-Catching Interference (KCI), which would also usually be a "spot of first touching", subject to a KCI noted exception.

In the last century, 3 people have declared NFHS Kicking rules as "easy & simple".  All 3 subsequently changed their minds.

[Derek Teigen]

[quote  =NVFOA_Ump link=topic=14250.msg144337#msg144337 date=1544974969]
Does a scrimmage kick actually have to be grounded for a touching by K to be first touching?
[/quote]

So my understanding is first touching can occur either in flight or after grounding on scrimmage kicks.  In any case my understanding is that R can never advance a ball if a fair catch signal is given.

I wonder if this is a newer rule to avoid deception by R; where 2 receivers are back and one is waving his arm and yelling to draw the attention of K...yet the ball is going to the complete opposite side of the field.

[Derek Teigen]

I can't speak for him, but I'm guessing he's thinking of a situation where R signals but doesn't catch the Kick. Then, after it's grounded, K first-touches. The question seems to be does this first touching wipe away R's restriction against advancing the kick because of the signal. The answer of course is No. Once R signals, the ball will be dead if/when he possesses.
At least that's what I understood.

Yes, that is exactly what I was envisioning...thank you.

[CalhounLJ]

Your understanding of the rule is correct. Not sure about your theory though.


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[AlUpstateNY]

So my understanding is first touching can occur either in flight or after grounding on scrimmage kicks.  In any case my understanding is that R can never advance a ball if a fair catch signal is given.

I wonder if this is a newer rule to avoid deception by R; where 2 receivers are back and one is waving his arm and yelling to draw the attention of K...yet the ball is going to the complete opposite side of the field.

This has been the rule for as long as I can remember.  I was taught to think of the "Fair Catch" as an agreement, binding on both K and R, triggered by R's signal.  R agrees to NOT advance the ball (by ANY/ALL member of R, after catching the ball), ANY member of R, who actually signaled for a Fair Catch also agrees NOT to block K, until the kick has ended. 

In return for forfeiting their right to advance the kick, R e xpects K to provide an unmolested opportunity for R to catch (move towards) the kick after ANY R player giving a valid, or invalid signal. (NFHS 6-5-3:" Only the receiver who gives a valid signal is afforded protection. If after a Receiver, the catch is made by a teammate it is NOT a FC, but the ball becomes dead."

NFHS 6-5-6: "This prohibition applies even when no FC signal is given, but it does NOT apply after a FREE kick has been touched by R, or a scrimmage kick has been touched by R who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching. (EXCEPTION- which is relatively new- K may catch,touch, muff or bat a scrimmage kickin flight beyond the neutral zone if no player of R is in position to catch the ball."

Kicking Table 6-4: Scrimmage kick  1.Kick recovered beyond the NZ may be advanced ONLY by R
(As long as it's STILL A KICK).

Free kick  3. Kick can NOT be advanced by K.

[Ralph Damren]

In 1997 ,we expanded 6-5-6 & 9-7-2 with exceptions allowing K to touch an airborne kick as long as no R player was in position to catch the ball.
Once a fair catch is signaled, no R player can advance the kick. If a teammate of R then fields the ball, it is our job to blow it dead. IMHO, we shouldn't DOG the teammate if he starts to run before we can tweet our tweeter, as we shouldn't penalize the player (who may not have seen the signal) because we were late on our tweet.
Inadvertent whistles  are most popular of muffed fair catches. We want to protect R, but the rule does that and all K players should know that. Don't be tempted to become an eager tweeter, be sure the catch is secure before tweeting.