Author Topic: Batting?  (Read 3424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BetweenTheLines

  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • FAN REACTION: +10/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Batting?
« on: February 26, 2019, 01:56:11 PM »
K is chasing a free kick down the sideline and they bat the ball back toward their own end zone to keep the ball from crossing the side line. Has K fouled (Illegal Bat)?

Offline bbeagle

  • *
  • Posts: 553
  • FAN REACTION: +14/-52
Re: Batting?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 02:45:03 PM »
K is chasing a free kick down the sideline and they bat the ball back toward their own end zone to keep the ball from crossing the side line. Has K fouled (Illegal Bat)?

If the ball has been grounded, and has travelled 10 yards, no problem - K is free to bat the ball towards their own end zone.

But K is also legally allowed to legally possess this ball (if it's gone 10 yards). So why would K bat it? Maybe K can't secure it without falling out of bounds, and is trying to bat it to a teammate? I don't see a problem with that.

EDIT: Maybe I'm mistaken.... I checked the rules, and the batting exception seems to apply only to scrimmage kicks, not free kicks. So this is a 15 yard penalty for batting the ball? I'd have to be 'sure' it was a bat, because a 'muff' is perfectly legal.

EDIT 2: Hmmmm... but illegally batting the ball saves his team the free-kick-out-of-bounds penalty. Say player K3 batted the kick from the R20 to the R22, and K/R recovered there. R would have gotten the ball at the 35 had the ball gone out of bounds (given a normal kick from the K40). So, now I'm thinking call the illegal bat!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:20:54 PM by bbeagle »

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Batting?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 05:23:42 PM »
I had never seen an illegal bat on the field in any game and we had 2 of them this year (also had an illegal forward handing so it was a strange year). The first one was a pooch kick that was heading out of bounds. A kicking team member dove for it (there was no way he would have been able to legally possess it) and batted it back into the field of play where his teammate recovered it. Had it been recovered by the receiving team they could have tacked it on to the succeeding spot. But their only choice was to back up and rekick from the 25. Their coach questioned me on it and I explained why it was a foul. He smiled and said, "I was afraid you knew the rule and would call that when I saw it."

The other one was on a free kick on the other side of the field. I believe that one was by the receiving team again to prevent it from going out of bounds.

Offline Stinterp

  • *
  • Posts: 188
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-16
Re: Batting?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 02:19:40 AM »
This is an illegal batting foul (if the Team K player truly did bat the ball and not muff it, he can possess it so why would he bat it).  The exception , by rule, only applies to scrimmage kicks.
Don't forget this is now a 10 yard penalty per the 2019 rule change.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 02:21:46 AM by Stinterp »

Offline bbeagle

  • *
  • Posts: 553
  • FAN REACTION: +14/-52
Re: Batting?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 08:53:30 AM »
I had never seen an illegal bat on the field in any game and we had 2 of them this year

I've had 1 flag for an illegal bat in all my years...

Team A punting from their own 10. Kick is blocked at the line, goes straight up in the air about 30 feet. Seemed like an eternity watching it come down. Team B player is waiting and waiting and waiting for the ball to come down - sort of like watching a volleyball and ready to spike it. When the ball comes down, he bats it towards the punter. The punter recovers the ball at his own 3.


Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Batting?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 09:31:53 AM »
I've had 1 flag for an illegal bat in all my years...

Team A punting from their own 10. Kick is blocked at the line, goes straight up in the air about 30 feet. Seemed like an eternity watching it come down. Team B player is waiting and waiting and waiting for the ball to come down - sort of like watching a volleyball and ready to spike it. When the ball comes down, he bats it towards the punter. The punter recovers the ball at his own 3.

Interesting play, Beagle, with a lot of "what if's". Let's try some.....

(1) If the kick hasn't yet been grounded, and batted by R BEHIND the line ?

(2) If the kick HAS been grounded, and batted by R behind the line ?

(3) If the kick hasn't yet been grounded, and batted BEYOND the line by R ?

(4) If the kick HAS been grounded, and batted beyond the line by R ?

YOU MAKE THE CALL   ^flag ^talk yEs: 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:13:13 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline BetweenTheLines

  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • FAN REACTION: +10/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Batting?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 11:43:50 AM »
Let me Try

(1) Illegal Bat Previous Spot Enforcement.

(2) Illegal Bat Previous Spot Enforcement.

(3) Legal if not KKI.

(4) Illegal Bat PSK Enforcement.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Batting?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 11:54:49 AM »
Let me Try

(1) Illegal Bat Previous Spot Enforcement.

(2) Illegal Bat Previous Spot Enforcement.

(3) Legal if not KKI.

(4) Illegal Bat PSK Enforcement.
Good job, Between the lines, #3 would still be illegal ,if there was KCI  we would offset and replay .In  #4, K can decline the penalty and take a new series as R touched the ball beyond the LOS.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 12:09:52 PM by Ralph Damren »

Offline Regno71

  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-0
  • No matter the field, it is never a home game.
Re: Batting?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 12:21:58 PM »
Help me out here, I would rule differently. Where am I missing things?

1 - Legal - it is technically still a scrimmage kick in flight, in or behind the expanded neutral zone. R 1-Goal at K 3. I don't see an exception in 9-7-2 for a double block.

2 - Illegal batting - 10 yards from previous spot.

3 and 4 - Illegal batting, but because R touches beyond the expanded neutral zone and K recovers, they can decline and start a new series in both.  (Edit: depending on how obvious the batting is, it could also just be considered a muff, no?)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 12:28:37 PM by Regno71 »

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Batting?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2019, 07:27:25 AM »
Help me out here, I would rule differently. Where am I missing things?

1 - Legal - it is technically still a scrimmage kick in flight, in or behind the expanded neutral zone. R 1-Goal at K 3. I don't see an exception in 9-7-2 for a double block.

2 - Illegal batting - 10 yards from previous spot.

3 and 4 - Illegal batting, but because R touches beyond the expanded neutral zone and K recovers, they can decline and start a new series in both.  (Edit: depending on how obvious the batting is, it could also just be considered a muff, no?)
You've got a good point, Regno, as the kick isn't yet came back to Earth. IMHO, I would still lean toward a foul as the kick has already been blocked. I agree that in case of doubt, rule it a muff. Life would be a lot simpler. Don't forget gang, while grounded/ not grounded doesn't impact my questions, it could effect the result of the play. IF the illegal bat went back thru K's EZ, a grounded kick would add a new force (2-13-3) and result in a touchback. If the kick was still airborne, it would be a safety. PSK would not apply in either as R did not end up with the ball.