Author Topic: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year  (Read 24060 times)

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Offline Coby

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Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« on: March 23, 2011, 08:50:21 AM »
Get ready for a big time reduction if not elimination of Jr Hi Football next year and sub-varsity football.  These cutbacks are no joke and non-varsity sports are going the way of the DoDo bird.  Not just in innercity schools but in districts with decent football traditions.  If you have kids that participate in these programs look for participation fees.  Also look for cities with strong youth programs to expand into 7th and 8th grade if not 9th and 10th.  I am going to say that the number of games will be reduced by 25-40%.  This next UIL alignment should also be interesting.  Thoughts???

Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 10:45:40 AM »
Thoughts:

*Did the authorization of funds from the rainy day fund still not offset enough of the shortfall? (I am honestly curious, I don't know)

*It's going to be harder for me to get points, advance to Division 3 and to get on a crew.  >:(

*It's going to be harder to get schools to pay up.

*Where I'm from in California, they didn't play interscholastic football until the Freshman level and then we had three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity.  JV and Varsity were played as a double header on Friday and Freshman games on Thursday afternoons, requiring less use of the lights.  We had four officials on Freshman games, four of the five varsity officials worked the JV game and then the fifth arrived for the Varsity game.  We didn't work in crews so I doubt this would be workable for us in the Houston area.  I wonder if some of it would work though?

*Youth levels played up the the 8th grade with some 9th graders even choosing to play youth rather than freshman.

*I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team?  Seems a bit...much to me.

Fire retardant suit is on, let the flaming begin.   ;D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:47:15 AM by Welpe »

Offline TXMike

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 10:59:28 AM »
Only 4 billion of the rainy day fund was okayed for use.  Allegedly that still leaves the state with a statewide "shortage" of $8 billion.

You're right, the reduction of jr high programs will not only make it harder for guys to move up, but it will make it harder to recruit/retain guys, and more importantly harder to train guys. 

As for schools paying up, I don't think it will have any effect.  Those that pay on time will continue doing so.  Those who have not, despite being fat with money, will not. 

Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 11:03:46 AM »
As for schools paying up, I don't think it will have any effect.  Those that pay on time will continue doing so.  Those who have not, despite being fat with money, will not.  

I hope you're right.  I still am trying to get schools to pay me from games I did in November.  I wouldn't be surprised if this happens more often next season. :(

The other thing I failed to mention about how it worked in California, the youth games were assigned by our association and were where the new officials trained.  They paid well but they weren't the plum, veteran officials only type deal that they are out here.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 11:13:35 AM »
"I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team?  Seems a bit...much to me."

Agreed.  Typically, the policy of all schools has been to not cut any students wanting to play football.  With fund limitations, that simply may not be possible now.  And those C level games for 7th and 8th probably need to go away anyway.  Schools will do what they can afford, so that means most likely fewer sv level games.  Officiating fees are small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but having extra coaches, travel and electrical expenses are big factors.

Is it just me, but when I played in high school, we had about 6 or 7 coaches that covered everything.  That was a 3A school, but still, we didn't need the 20 they have these days.  I look over at the sidelines now during a 5A game and I could swear they have about 30 coaches standing around.  That really does not seem necessary.

Offline Coby

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 12:32:54 PM »
"I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team?  Seems a bit...much to me."

Agreed.  Typically, the policy of all schools has been to not cut any students wanting to play football.  With fund limitations, that simply may not be possible now.  And those C level games for 7th and 8th probably need to go away anyway.  Schools will do what they can afford, so that means most likely fewer sv level games.  Officiating fees are small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but having extra coaches, travel and electrical expenses are big factors.

Is it just me, but when I played in high school, we had about 6 or 7 coaches that covered everything.  That was a 3A school, but still, we didn't need the 20 they have these days.  I look over at the sidelines now during a 5A game and I could swear they have about 30 coaches standing around.  That really does not seem necessary.

Referee expense is absolutely small potatoes in the grand scheme of a school budget.  Athletic budgets are seperate entities.  Inside of an athletics budget you have all of the expenses you talked about except salaries.  So when an AD is told to trim their budget 25% this includes (generally speaking) uniforms, travel (not so much gas but paying bus drivers, and food), stipends, officials, equipment, and maintenance (uniforms, grass, etc).  Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget.  Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends.  Now if you have a decent program then the gate will easily cover this expense.  Even at Jr Hi games.  I once called a jr hi game in Dayton with easily 1200 people in the stands.  I understand this is an exception to the rule.

A lot of the more well off schools get their booster club to give 4-8 stipends a year.  This would account for all of the JV LB coaches out there and my favorite the get back coach.

My point is what are we going to do if they tell us to take a pay cut?  I think a lot of it has to do with how they ask us.  Will they tell us now (budgets are all due in the next couple of weeks) or will they wait until games start and we wonder why our checks are not what they are suppose to be?  A lot of goodwill could have been gained if they would have supported us against the UIL but now it should be interesting.

Cooter

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 02:02:51 PM »
Under the current budget circumstances facing schools in Texas - I would take a pay cut to officiate.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 02:07:46 PM »
Under the current budget circumstances facing schools in Texas - I would take a pay cut to officiate.

I'd agree the keep the old 1204...in it's entirety....

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 02:25:42 PM »
"Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget.  Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends."

Colby, I strongly disagree with you.  The officiating budget is no where near 25% to 35% of a ISD's athletic budget, no way, no how.  I was on my local ISD's budget committee a few years back and officials were about 4% to 5% of the athletic budget, total of about $18K for a 5A single high school, two middle school district with all sports.  When you look at travel expenses, stipends, uniforms, equipment, facilities costs, etc, that $18K was a nothing in the big scheme of the athletic budget.

The only was schools can but officiating pay is to cut their number of games.  They have to abide by 1204 just like we do.

Offline Etref

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 02:35:26 PM »
I have heard of some schools possibly wanting to have just one official at subvarsity games and then a coach from each side works the wings.

Horrible, horrible idea and I for one would not do it. I have done it in the past long, long ago when would up as a one man crew and it was not productive. Nearly had the coaches in a fist fight amongst themselves over forward progress spots.

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Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 02:45:18 PM »
I have heard of some schools possibly wanting to have just one official at subvarsity games and then a coach from each side works the wings.

Horrible, horrible idea and I for one would not do it. I have done it in the past long, long ago when would up as a one man crew and it was not productive. Nearly had the coaches in a fist fight amongst themselves over forward progress spots.



Wow....I hate working with just three officials, no way I'm working with any less.

rickref

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 03:01:15 PM »
No one should work a game alone. Safety and liability issues.

I have not yet heard of sub varsity cuts here. I would expect bigger schools to lower multiple grade level teams like the c and d teams etc.

If they do guys will need to get snaps on pee wee games.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 03:03:13 PM »
If they do guys will need to get snaps on pee wee games.

Good luck wrestling that cash cow away from the veterans! I think it will take me longer to break into regular peewee ball assignments than it will to get on a varsity crew.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 03:08:38 PM »
Referee expense is absolutely small potatoes in the grand scheme of a school budget.  Athletic budgets are seperate entities.  Inside of an athletics budget you have all of the expenses you talked about except salaries.  So when an AD is told to trim their budget 25% this includes (generally speaking) uniforms, travel (not so much gas but paying bus drivers, and food), stipends, officials, equipment, and maintenance (uniforms, grass, etc).  Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget.  Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends.  Now if you have a decent program then the gate will easily cover this expense.  Even at Jr Hi games.  I once called a jr hi game in Dayton with easily 1200 people in the stands.  I understand this is an exception to the rule.

A lot of the more well off schools get their booster club to give 4-8 stipends a year.  This would account for all of the JV LB coaches out there and my favorite the get back coach.

My point is what are we going to do if they tell us to take a pay cut?  I think a lot of it has to do with how they ask us.  Will they tell us now (budgets are all due in the next couple of weeks) or will they wait until games start and we wonder why our checks are not what they are suppose to be?  A lot of goodwill could have been gained if they would have supported us against the UIL but now it should be interesting.
Somewhere on this board is the results of some research I did on this based on several ISD published budgets.  The officiating was a minisucule part of it.

But I 200% agree with you re the goodwill the ISDs could have earned for themselves but which they failed to do.

Offline tzebra

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 04:05:41 PM »
When the super, Prin, ADs, etc all take pay cuts then I might be willing to look at it.  But I don't think you will see that happening anytime soon.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 04:55:42 PM »
What % of school budgets go to ALL extracurricular activities?

Bigs
http://archive.austinisd.org/inside/budget/docs/AISD_Preliminary_Budget_2011.pdf  Austin ISD   1.9% of budget

http://www.dallasisd.org/about/geninfo/budget/1011adopbudget.pdf  Dallas ISD   1% of budget

http://www.nisd.net/business/budgets/2010.pdf Northside ISD (largest in San Antonio)    1.5%

Not So Bigs
http://www.cueroisd.org/budget10-11.pdf  Cuero ISD   4.5%
http://www.bradyisd.org/www/BRADYISD/site/hosting/bud%202250%20operating%20budget%202010-2011.pdf  Brady ISD   5.9%


Smalls
http://www.nisd.us/Forms/Budget/1011/Adopted_Budget_2010-11.pdf  Navarro ISD  3.9%
  http://www2.fcisd.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=199&Itemid=100010&lang=en         Falls City ISD  6.8%


For the large districts it is clearly a miniscule amount.  Somewhat more for smaller (and smallest) districts but still pretty small part of the overall budget. 

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 08:46:43 PM »
Quote
I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team?

Don't be silly. No school has 3 8th grade teams!

Well, at least, not in my area they don't. Anyway, you left out 2 JV teams (in addition to the soph.), and in some cases, a 3rd Freshman team. Last year I worked a lot of Monday night games involving 3 7th grade teams. With 6 minute quarters and, for the most part, running teams, we finished sooner than we did on Thursday nights with 2 games. Yet, we got paid more. And for the younger guys, extra game points. I will concede that the time or two I did 3 frosh games or a soph/JV/JV set, it was brutal.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 06:09:53 AM »
Wow! Two JV teams and three Frodh teams? That's a lot of watered down football.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 07:00:37 AM »
 ^flag

It will be very interesting to see if the well-funded school districts will continue to have the 3-tier 7th and 8th Grade team schedules, not to even mention those that have double-tier teams at the high school subvarsity level. As one prominent AD told me, they exercised this multiple-tier system solely to give most of the kids the opportunity to get to play sports in some fashion in their career, although they wouldn't ever have a snowballs chance in Hades of ever being able to suit up for the High School Varsity level.

In this all-apparent altruistic move by these school districts, I really don't think that there will be near enough money there for them to even contemplate of keeping the status quo.   z^

Offline Etref

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 10:00:53 AM »
Why do we have a shortfall at all?

#1 reason: We are spending millions and millions of dollars each year on Federally mandated programs. English as second language, school lunches, school breakfast, after school programs, diversity issues, etc.

Quit spending that money and tell Washington to go butt a stump................................. Shortage solved.


Like Welpe said, I am fire proof.

" I don't make the rules coach!"

rickref

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 10:14:51 AM »
Why do we have a shortfall at all?

#1 reason: We are spending millions and millions of dollars each year on Federally mandated programs. English as second language, school lunches, school breakfast, after school programs, diversity issues, etc.

Quit spending that money and tell Washington to go butt a stump................................. Shortage solved.


Like Welpe said, I am fire proof.



Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.

I will stop at any further political dribble.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 11:14:52 AM »
Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.


 ^flag

A point well taken! But if we're going to be somewhat analytical here, let's examine the hefty salaries and expense accounts of the Supes and their various school district administrators. You would have one difficult time trying to adequately explain to a lot of us that those exorbinant salaries/expenses are right in line for us taxpayers in getting the biggest bang for our buck!      z^

refereebrent

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 11:56:19 AM »
Quote from: rickref on Today at 10:14:51 AM
Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.


I teach in a very poor school located in a majority Hispanic area of North Houston, very near the airport and Campbell Center. I have had kids come to school hungry and they tell me the meals they get at school is pretty much all they have. It tears me up inside. Most of that funding comes from the Federal government. They are very strict about how it is used. It needs to stay.

I teach ESL to two bilingual classes. I receive no additional funds for this. In fact, my pay has gone down $3000 in the past year due to budget cuts, and we no longer receive any incentive pay for TAKS scores.

There are additional ways to save money in my district besides dropping middle school and sub varsity sports. Reduce energy costs, such as raise the thermostats and temperature in the classrooms and buildings. Eliminate field trips. Use recycling as a fund raiser.Eliminate unnecessary positions inside the district office. Reduce testing. I am a huge believer in that we test way too much. I try to get my students ready for the real world and to be able to use their brains to problem solve instead of trying to retain information for a test.

The option to keep middle school sports will probably involve a pay to play option. Personally I think this idea might be the best option. Fundraisers like the little league/pee wee sports have may be coming to a district near you.




Offline JasonTX

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2011, 12:22:35 PM »
Our high school has already renewed contracts for this next year.  Only 3 people were not renewed.  They've also cut the schduled from 8 classes to 7 and got rid of health class as well as some other non-required electives.  Nothing has been mentioned about athletics.  Our school spends money like it's nothing, and they are getting ready to drop some change on a new press box.

rickref

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Re: Get Ready for no Jr HI Football next year
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2011, 12:29:02 PM »

I teach in a very poor school located in a majority Hispanic area of North Houston, very near the airport and Campbell Center. I have had kids come to school hungry and they tell me the meals they get at school is pretty much all they have. It tears me up inside. Most of that funding comes from the Federal government. They are very strict about how it is used. It needs to stay.

I teach ESL to two bilingual classes. I receive no additional funds for this. In fact, my pay has gone down $3000 in the past year due to budget cuts, and we no longer receive any incentive pay for TAKS scores.

There are additional ways to save money in my district besides dropping middle school and sub varsity sports. Reduce energy costs, such as raise the thermostats and temperature in the classrooms and buildings. Eliminate field trips. Use recycling as a fund raiser.Eliminate unnecessary positions inside the district office. Reduce testing. I am a huge believer in that we test way too much. I try to get my students ready for the real world and to be able to use their brains to problem solve instead of trying to retain information for a test.



I know it used to get to me also. Lot of my sons friends had many challenges. I agree we test too much for the wrong things and spend unwisely. Energy use and expenditures need to be scrutinized.

Thanks for teaching!