Author Topic: Is experience a necessity?  (Read 7288 times)

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whosyourdaddy

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Is experience a necessity?
« on: December 14, 2010, 06:20:28 PM »
Should there be a minimum number of years of experience before working late round playoff games/state championships?  I hear there is a third year guy that will be working a state championship game in Texas this weekend.  Amazing!

Offline TXMike

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 06:22:30 PM »
As long as the crew knows that and the coaches know that, rock and roll.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 06:27:15 PM »
Advantages and disadvantages of the crew system.  It surely would not be right to allow a crew to work games all year long and then take the "young guy" out for the semis or finals.  That would destroy the whole idea of a crew concept.  As Mike said, so long as the coaches picked the crew, they have consented.  They could just as easily request a crew with no less than "10" years if they wanted to.

texref

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 08:19:45 PM »
That third year Official worked a full schedule in the Southland Conference (FCS) this season. He also grew up in a very successful Officiating household and has been around it all of his life (not to mention playing D-I football in college). He is not your "typical" third year Official. Trust me I would go with him over a number of Umpires I have seen with a lot more experience.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 09:27:17 PM »
Is he working 1 of the 3 at Cowboys stadium?  No problem here with him getting that game.  Apparently he was good enough leave an impression on the powers that be.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 10:36:09 PM »
I think this sort of thing has long term effects on us retaining officials. This is the epitome of the good ole' boy system. How many 3rd years come close to working the Southland, much less are on a HS crew of stature good enough for a late round playoff game?

I don't care much. Where he works doesn't affect me, and I still bust my BUTT in-season and out. But I know several (at least 4) 10-12 year guys who left with this exact thing -- 2-3 year officials working good crews and college -- being one (but not the only) issue why they quit. Its funny how they all pretty much said the same thing -- politics and coaches in different orders. You may think, "that's their problem," but its all of our's problem when some of our best, most capable guys are leaving right in the prime of their career.

This doesn't speak of whether its a good idea to have someone with limited experience actually working this weekend. Were you ready for that in your 3rd year? I wasn't, and I did everything to prepare: clinics and state meeting before I ever took the field, 70 some odd games my first year and 50+ my second; playoff game my third year, and not in a small chapter. I played college basketball, and I'm a pretty good hoops ref. But the first time I stepped on the court in a stripped shirt and whistle, I was totally clueless and my playing career meant nothing. That stuff helps you five years in when you've mastered the basics and are working on the fine details of improving -- game management, dealing with coaches, etc. And I've worked with guys who haven't played a down of football or shot a basketball since jr. high that are damn good officials in their sport.

Smaller chapters have different issues, but larger chapters can put in a 5 year plan: something like, first year, subvarsity only; second year, 6 man, possibly small private schools; 3-5, small schools. After 5 years, crew eligible and they've worked 30+ varsity games already. Obviously, the details are debatable. But is it really a good idea for a crew chief to have a final say in whether an official is ready when we ALL know there is a better way?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 11:07:04 PM »
I think this sort of thing has long term effects on us retaining officials. This is the epitome of the good ole' boy system. How many 3rd years come close to working the Southland, much less are on a HS crew of stature good enough for a late round playoff game?

I don't care much. Where he works doesn't affect me, and I still bust my BUTT in-season and out. But I know several (at least 4) 10-12 year guys who left with this exact thing -- 2-3 year officials working good crews and college -- being one (but not the only) issue why they quit. our's problem when some of our best, most capable guys are leaving right in the prime of their career.

Excellent points regarding the retention of officials.  The younger generation (I'm speaking as if I'm not part of that generation  :D) wants everything NOW.  They don't want to wait for it.  We have all got to where we are by taking different paths.  Some have got there on their own while others were born into officiating.  As for the playoffs itself:  Sometimes we put too much emphasis on the playoffs.  I wish we could all just be happy with the 10 to 33 varsity games we may get in the season.  Instead we put the playoffs on this high and mighty pedestal to a point where if an official doesn't get a playoff they get upset.  I think instead, we should all start working our regular games as playoff games and treat them as such.  Let's start making a "big deal" out of the regular season as we currently do the playoffs.


Offline fencewire

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 06:27:59 AM »
How about a little opposite side of the coin... What if he is better than you, maybe there should be some looking in the mirror.  Seems like a lot of jealousy in some of these posts. 

If you were running a business, would you rather hire the guy that did the best job? Or the one that had been around the longest?  It is as simple as that.  I can't believe that you typed that his "schedule" smelled of GOB network.... Really?   That is the exact opposite.  I would guess that the guys he calls with are veterans, I am pretty sure that if he wasn't ready for the games, they would be the ones to know and wouldn't be on the field with him.  If he is working college, he is getting evaluated and graded every week, if he couldn't do it then he would not be on the field.

Personally, I think the n years to do x is absurd.  If someone can do the job, why do you care how many years they have....  Talk about retention problems, all that does is reward commitment, not ability. 

Offline Etref

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 08:13:43 AM »
There was one who worked the 3A Final last Friday and he did a hell of a job!

If we do not take the younger officials and work them onto crews, how are they going to get the necessary experience? No offense but the question seems like a case of sour grapes to me.
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whosyourdaddy

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 08:35:05 AM »
There was one who worked the 3A Final last Friday and he did a hell of a job!

If we do not take the younger officials and work them onto crews, how are they going to get the necessary experience? No offense but the question seems like a case of sour grapes to me.



 Excellent points by many.  There are no sour grapes here I'm all for younger guys having equal opportunity to work whatever game they are assigned to or asked for.  I was just interested to hear the boards opinion.  However, I am perplexed by the idea that a Coach would select or allow a 3rd year official to work possibly the biggest game of his career. 

rickref

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 08:37:45 AM »
I know some 5,8,10 year guys who can work circles around the "experienced" in number of years.

Some guys just are good and know what needs to be done. Some guys may have grown up with all the knowledge around them and were already ahead before they even started.

Some guys are 25 year officials doing their 3rd year over again for the 22 time.  

Congrats to this and all officials working this weekend. Regardless of how they were chosen for the game I hope they have the time of their lives and do a great job.  

Offline Coby

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 08:52:49 AM »
How about a little opposite side of the coin... What if he is better than you, maybe there should be some looking in the mirror.  Seems like a lot of jealousy in some of these posts. 

If you were running a business, would you rather hire the guy that did the best job? Or the one that had been around the longest?  It is as simple as that.  I can't believe that you typed that his "schedule" smelled of GOB network.... Really?   That is the exact opposite.  I would guess that the guys he calls with are veterans, I am pretty sure that if he wasn't ready for the games, they would be the ones to know and wouldn't be on the field with him.  If he is working college, he is getting evaluated and graded every week, if he couldn't do it then he would not be on the field.

Personally, I think the n years to do x is absurd.  If someone can do the job, why do you care how many years they have....  Talk about retention problems, all that does is reward commitment, not ability. 

If I was running a business I would have a lot more "data" to go off of then how many years experience a person has.  Which is where the problem lies.  We need to create a data base that the coaches go off of to pick playoff games.  The data needs a lot more then division and years experience in it.  I would list games they have officiated, Body Mass Index, how long they have been together as a crew, 40 time, NFL shuttle time, TASO test scores, Zebra ware overall evaluation scores.  We have the data the chapters and the state need to make this data public for the coaches to choose from.  Then TASO can track "traits" that are most commonly picked and tell the young guys what to strive for.  Right now the only correlation between getting games and not getting games is a crews division level.

smt 1

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 06:54:57 PM »
Rickref is correct!  Experience does matter, but years of experience means zilch!  Either you can work or not.  The better official is the better official regardless of the years.  I hear all the time "I've got 10 years, I've got 25 years"..........So what???  You suck apparently?  Look in the mirror and be truthful to yourself, because you aint fooling anyone else!

Offline TXMike

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 06:58:25 PM »
We all know the guys who have 20 years of experience and the guys who have 1 year of experience 20 times

Offline With_Two_Flakes

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Re: Is experience a necessity?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 06:33:43 AM »
In my association here in the UK, it is the officials who choose the people for finals, not the coaches. I'm on the Selection Ctte that does that. Whilst number of years experience is one of several factors we take into account for our rankings, it only counts for a tiny percentage (coaches marks don't count for much either).

Over here we have folks with 1 years experience 15 times just as you do. We have had someone quit officiating because they felt "it was their turn" to get a playoff game due to seniority. I'd worked a couple of games with him. Nice guy but, from a purely officiating perspective, frankly he was no loss to the association. Whenever we get a complaint from someone about this sort of issue, we simply tell them their position in the ranking system and explain that if they want a playoff game to work harder to improve and "suck less".

Equally we have newer guys who are real prospects. If their ranking puts them up there than they'll get the game.
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