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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: Coby on March 23, 2011, 08:50:21 AM
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Get ready for a big time reduction if not elimination of Jr Hi Football next year and sub-varsity football. These cutbacks are no joke and non-varsity sports are going the way of the DoDo bird. Not just in innercity schools but in districts with decent football traditions. If you have kids that participate in these programs look for participation fees. Also look for cities with strong youth programs to expand into 7th and 8th grade if not 9th and 10th. I am going to say that the number of games will be reduced by 25-40%. This next UIL alignment should also be interesting. Thoughts???
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Thoughts:
*Did the authorization of funds from the rainy day fund still not offset enough of the shortfall? (I am honestly curious, I don't know)
*It's going to be harder for me to get points, advance to Division 3 and to get on a crew. >:(
*It's going to be harder to get schools to pay up.
*Where I'm from in California, they didn't play interscholastic football until the Freshman level and then we had three teams, Freshman, JV and Varsity. JV and Varsity were played as a double header on Friday and Freshman games on Thursday afternoons, requiring less use of the lights. We had four officials on Freshman games, four of the five varsity officials worked the JV game and then the fifth arrived for the Varsity game. We didn't work in crews so I doubt this would be workable for us in the Houston area. I wonder if some of it would work though?
*Youth levels played up the the 8th grade with some 9th graders even choosing to play youth rather than freshman.
*I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team? Seems a bit...much to me.
Fire retardant suit is on, let the flaming begin. ;D
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Only 4 billion of the rainy day fund was okayed for use. Allegedly that still leaves the state with a statewide "shortage" of $8 billion.
You're right, the reduction of jr high programs will not only make it harder for guys to move up, but it will make it harder to recruit/retain guys, and more importantly harder to train guys.
As for schools paying up, I don't think it will have any effect. Those that pay on time will continue doing so. Those who have not, despite being fat with money, will not.
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As for schools paying up, I don't think it will have any effect. Those that pay on time will continue doing so. Those who have not, despite being fat with money, will not.
I hope you're right. I still am trying to get schools to pay me from games I did in November. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens more often next season. :(
The other thing I failed to mention about how it worked in California, the youth games were assigned by our association and were where the new officials trained. They paid well but they weren't the plum, veteran officials only type deal that they are out here.
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"I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team? Seems a bit...much to me."
Agreed. Typically, the policy of all schools has been to not cut any students wanting to play football. With fund limitations, that simply may not be possible now. And those C level games for 7th and 8th probably need to go away anyway. Schools will do what they can afford, so that means most likely fewer sv level games. Officiating fees are small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but having extra coaches, travel and electrical expenses are big factors.
Is it just me, but when I played in high school, we had about 6 or 7 coaches that covered everything. That was a 3A school, but still, we didn't need the 20 they have these days. I look over at the sidelines now during a 5A game and I could swear they have about 30 coaches standing around. That really does not seem necessary.
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"I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team? Seems a bit...much to me."
Agreed. Typically, the policy of all schools has been to not cut any students wanting to play football. With fund limitations, that simply may not be possible now. And those C level games for 7th and 8th probably need to go away anyway. Schools will do what they can afford, so that means most likely fewer sv level games. Officiating fees are small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but having extra coaches, travel and electrical expenses are big factors.
Is it just me, but when I played in high school, we had about 6 or 7 coaches that covered everything. That was a 3A school, but still, we didn't need the 20 they have these days. I look over at the sidelines now during a 5A game and I could swear they have about 30 coaches standing around. That really does not seem necessary.
Referee expense is absolutely small potatoes in the grand scheme of a school budget. Athletic budgets are seperate entities. Inside of an athletics budget you have all of the expenses you talked about except salaries. So when an AD is told to trim their budget 25% this includes (generally speaking) uniforms, travel (not so much gas but paying bus drivers, and food), stipends, officials, equipment, and maintenance (uniforms, grass, etc). Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget. Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends. Now if you have a decent program then the gate will easily cover this expense. Even at Jr Hi games. I once called a jr hi game in Dayton with easily 1200 people in the stands. I understand this is an exception to the rule.
A lot of the more well off schools get their booster club to give 4-8 stipends a year. This would account for all of the JV LB coaches out there and my favorite the get back coach.
My point is what are we going to do if they tell us to take a pay cut? I think a lot of it has to do with how they ask us. Will they tell us now (budgets are all due in the next couple of weeks) or will they wait until games start and we wonder why our checks are not what they are suppose to be? A lot of goodwill could have been gained if they would have supported us against the UIL but now it should be interesting.
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Under the current budget circumstances facing schools in Texas - I would take a pay cut to officiate.
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Under the current budget circumstances facing schools in Texas - I would take a pay cut to officiate.
I'd agree the keep the old 1204...in it's entirety....
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"Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget. Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends."
Colby, I strongly disagree with you. The officiating budget is no where near 25% to 35% of a ISD's athletic budget, no way, no how. I was on my local ISD's budget committee a few years back and officials were about 4% to 5% of the athletic budget, total of about $18K for a 5A single high school, two middle school district with all sports. When you look at travel expenses, stipends, uniforms, equipment, facilities costs, etc, that $18K was a nothing in the big scheme of the athletic budget.
The only was schools can but officiating pay is to cut their number of games. They have to abide by 1204 just like we do.
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I have heard of some schools possibly wanting to have just one official at subvarsity games and then a coach from each side works the wings.
Horrible, horrible idea and I for one would not do it. I have done it in the past long, long ago when would up as a one man crew and it was not productive. Nearly had the coaches in a fist fight amongst themselves over forward progress spots.
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I have heard of some schools possibly wanting to have just one official at subvarsity games and then a coach from each side works the wings.
Horrible, horrible idea and I for one would not do it. I have done it in the past long, long ago when would up as a one man crew and it was not productive. Nearly had the coaches in a fist fight amongst themselves over forward progress spots.
Wow....I hate working with just three officials, no way I'm working with any less.
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No one should work a game alone. Safety and liability issues.
I have not yet heard of sub varsity cuts here. I would expect bigger schools to lower multiple grade level teams like the c and d teams etc.
If they do guys will need to get snaps on pee wee games.
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If they do guys will need to get snaps on pee wee games.
Good luck wrestling that cash cow away from the veterans! I think it will take me longer to break into regular peewee ball assignments than it will to get on a varsity crew.
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Referee expense is absolutely small potatoes in the grand scheme of a school budget. Athletic budgets are seperate entities. Inside of an athletics budget you have all of the expenses you talked about except salaries. So when an AD is told to trim their budget 25% this includes (generally speaking) uniforms, travel (not so much gas but paying bus drivers, and food), stipends, officials, equipment, and maintenance (uniforms, grass, etc). Of which officials probably account for 25-35% of the budget. Officiating is usually the 2nd highest athletic department expense behind stipends. Now if you have a decent program then the gate will easily cover this expense. Even at Jr Hi games. I once called a jr hi game in Dayton with easily 1200 people in the stands. I understand this is an exception to the rule.
A lot of the more well off schools get their booster club to give 4-8 stipends a year. This would account for all of the JV LB coaches out there and my favorite the get back coach.
My point is what are we going to do if they tell us to take a pay cut? I think a lot of it has to do with how they ask us. Will they tell us now (budgets are all due in the next couple of weeks) or will they wait until games start and we wonder why our checks are not what they are suppose to be? A lot of goodwill could have been gained if they would have supported us against the UIL but now it should be interesting.
Somewhere on this board is the results of some research I did on this based on several ISD published budgets. The officiating was a minisucule part of it.
But I 200% agree with you re the goodwill the ISDs could have earned for themselves but which they failed to do.
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When the super, Prin, ADs, etc all take pay cuts then I might be willing to look at it. But I don't think you will see that happening anytime soon.
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What % of school budgets go to ALL extracurricular activities?
Bigs
http://archive.austinisd.org/inside/budget/docs/AISD_Preliminary_Budget_2011.pdf Austin ISD 1.9% of budget
http://www.dallasisd.org/about/geninfo/budget/1011adopbudget.pdf Dallas ISD 1% of budget
http://www.nisd.net/business/budgets/2010.pdf Northside ISD (largest in San Antonio) 1.5%
Not So Bigs
http://www.cueroisd.org/budget10-11.pdf Cuero ISD 4.5%
http://www.bradyisd.org/www/BRADYISD/site/hosting/bud%202250%20operating%20budget%202010-2011.pdf Brady ISD 5.9%
Smalls
http://www.nisd.us/Forms/Budget/1011/Adopted_Budget_2010-11.pdf Navarro ISD 3.9%
http://www2.fcisd.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=199&Itemid=100010&lang=en Falls City ISD 6.8%
For the large districts it is clearly a miniscule amount. Somewhat more for smaller (and smallest) districts but still pretty small part of the overall budget.
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I know this is Texas and it is football country but do they really need three 7th grade teams, three 8th grade teams, two freshman teams, a Sophomore team, a JV team and a Varsity team?
Don't be silly. No school has 3 8th grade teams!
Well, at least, not in my area they don't. Anyway, you left out 2 JV teams (in addition to the soph.), and in some cases, a 3rd Freshman team. Last year I worked a lot of Monday night games involving 3 7th grade teams. With 6 minute quarters and, for the most part, running teams, we finished sooner than we did on Thursday nights with 2 games. Yet, we got paid more. And for the younger guys, extra game points. I will concede that the time or two I did 3 frosh games or a soph/JV/JV set, it was brutal.
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Wow! Two JV teams and three Frodh teams? That's a lot of watered down football.
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^flag
It will be very interesting to see if the well-funded school districts will continue to have the 3-tier 7th and 8th Grade team schedules, not to even mention those that have double-tier teams at the high school subvarsity level. As one prominent AD told me, they exercised this multiple-tier system solely to give most of the kids the opportunity to get to play sports in some fashion in their career, although they wouldn't ever have a snowballs chance in Hades of ever being able to suit up for the High School Varsity level.
In this all-apparent altruistic move by these school districts, I really don't think that there will be near enough money there for them to even contemplate of keeping the status quo. z^
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Why do we have a shortfall at all?
#1 reason: We are spending millions and millions of dollars each year on Federally mandated programs. English as second language, school lunches, school breakfast, after school programs, diversity issues, etc.
Quit spending that money and tell Washington to go butt a stump................................. Shortage solved.
Like Welpe said, I am fire proof.
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Why do we have a shortfall at all?
#1 reason: We are spending millions and millions of dollars each year on Federally mandated programs. English as second language, school lunches, school breakfast, after school programs, diversity issues, etc.
Quit spending that money and tell Washington to go butt a stump................................. Shortage solved.
Like Welpe said, I am fire proof.
Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.
I will stop at any further political dribble.
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Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.
^flag
A point well taken! But if we're going to be somewhat analytical here, let's examine the hefty salaries and expense accounts of the Supes and their various school district administrators. You would have one difficult time trying to adequately explain to a lot of us that those exorbinant salaries/expenses are right in line for us taxpayers in getting the biggest bang for our buck! z^
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Quote from: rickref on Today at 10:14:51 AM
Well drop this one at least "English as second language." Lunches and breakfasts can be all some kids get in a week. I have had my kids in a school where the majority of kids can not afford either and now I we are in a school where this is not an issue.
I teach in a very poor school located in a majority Hispanic area of North Houston, very near the airport and Campbell Center. I have had kids come to school hungry and they tell me the meals they get at school is pretty much all they have. It tears me up inside. Most of that funding comes from the Federal government. They are very strict about how it is used. It needs to stay.
I teach ESL to two bilingual classes. I receive no additional funds for this. In fact, my pay has gone down $3000 in the past year due to budget cuts, and we no longer receive any incentive pay for TAKS scores.
There are additional ways to save money in my district besides dropping middle school and sub varsity sports. Reduce energy costs, such as raise the thermostats and temperature in the classrooms and buildings. Eliminate field trips. Use recycling as a fund raiser.Eliminate unnecessary positions inside the district office. Reduce testing. I am a huge believer in that we test way too much. I try to get my students ready for the real world and to be able to use their brains to problem solve instead of trying to retain information for a test.
The option to keep middle school sports will probably involve a pay to play option. Personally I think this idea might be the best option. Fundraisers like the little league/pee wee sports have may be coming to a district near you.
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Our high school has already renewed contracts for this next year. Only 3 people were not renewed. They've also cut the schduled from 8 classes to 7 and got rid of health class as well as some other non-required electives. Nothing has been mentioned about athletics. Our school spends money like it's nothing, and they are getting ready to drop some change on a new press box.
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I teach in a very poor school located in a majority Hispanic area of North Houston, very near the airport and Campbell Center. I have had kids come to school hungry and they tell me the meals they get at school is pretty much all they have. It tears me up inside. Most of that funding comes from the Federal government. They are very strict about how it is used. It needs to stay.
I teach ESL to two bilingual classes. I receive no additional funds for this. In fact, my pay has gone down $3000 in the past year due to budget cuts, and we no longer receive any incentive pay for TAKS scores.
There are additional ways to save money in my district besides dropping middle school and sub varsity sports. Reduce energy costs, such as raise the thermostats and temperature in the classrooms and buildings. Eliminate field trips. Use recycling as a fund raiser.Eliminate unnecessary positions inside the district office. Reduce testing. I am a huge believer in that we test way too much. I try to get my students ready for the real world and to be able to use their brains to problem solve instead of trying to retain information for a test.
I know it used to get to me also. Lot of my sons friends had many challenges. I agree we test too much for the wrong things and spend unwisely. Energy use and expenditures need to be scrutinized.
Thanks for teaching!
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I think there is room to cut some waste from everything...yes, even athletics. We are at a time where we cannot have many sacred cows, impervious from any kind of budget cuts.
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I think there is room to cut some waste from everything...yes, even athletics. We are at a time where we cannot have many sacred cows, impervious from any kind of budget cuts.
I would start with the uil's director of officiating.
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Well some areas will require greater cuts than others.... pi1eOn
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^flag
I cannot begin to applaud loud enough for you "Stripes" who are the teachers! May God truly bless you guys and gals for such a noble undertaking. May there be plenty in your budgets for long-deserved pay raises for the time and the heart that you extend on a daily basis.
But if it comes to a Supe's/Administrators salary & expense account, I would hearitly say "Cut it!" and keep those federally-funded school lunches for the less fortunate coming. Now that is truly a blessing, at least to those poor kids who probably won't get any more food for that day! For those of us who might entertain cutting the funding of those meals, then all I can say is to try walking a mile in those students shoes! z^
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^flag
I cannot begin to applaud loud enough for you "Stripes" who are the teachers! May God truly bless you guys and gals for such a noble undertaking. May there be plenty in your budgets for long-deserved pay raises for the time and the heart that you extend on a daily basis.
But if it comes to a Supe's/Administrators salary & expense account, I would hearitly say "Cut it!" and keep those federally-funded school lunches for the less fortunate coming. Now that is truly a blessing, at least to those poor kids who probably won't get any more food for that day! For those of us who might entertain cutting the funding of those meals, then all I can say is to try walking a mile in those students shoes! z^
I fully support a lunch program (I teach at a title 1 school) but I bet we could do it locally better...and not have Michelle telling us that corn on the cob with paprika is a good substitute for fries!
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I fully support a lunch program (I teach at a title 1 school) but I bet we could do it locally better...and not have Michelle telling us that corn on the cob with paprika is a good substitute for fries!
I would like to extend no pass no play to no pass no free lunch...Think about the discipline problems that would solve.
I would also like for someone to verify money from the free lunch forms. Right now as it stands if a kid fills out the paper and says the parents make under 25K (i think) they get a free lunch. The school that he attends also gets more money from the feds/state for every app turned in so there is no reason for the school to verify if the form is correct. My school is 96% free and reduced lunch. There are a lot of nice cars in the student parking lots for there to be that many kids struggling. I have no problem paying for the kids that really need it, It is the ones that milk the system that I have a problem with.
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I was wondering if someone was going to take us down that path. The sad reality is that conservative estimates are the free lunch program is ripped off to the tune of 1 to 1.5 billion a year (nationwide). That is "federal money" so nobody much cares about it at the local level. And it would cost so much to have a good verification program in place plus an enforcment system to dissuade folks from chesting that nobody wants to set it up. And even if you can prove the fraud or attempted fraud, the case has little prosecutive appeal because at the end of the day, some kid got fed.
Even if this money was saved, it is federal money so would not do Texas schools much good.
We probably all agree there is fraud, waste, and abuse with many programs in school districts. The problem is nobody wants to spend the money to get staffs in place who could root it out and deal with the abusers.
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I was wondering if someone was going to take us down that path. The sad reality is that conservative estimates are the free lunch program is ripped off to the tune of 1 to 1.5 billion a year (nationwide). That is "federal money" so nobody much cares about it at the local level. And it would cost so much to have a good verification program in place plus an enforcment system to dissuade folks from chesting that nobody wants to set it up. And even if you can prove the fraud or attempted fraud, the case has little prosecutive appeal because at the end of the day, some kid got fed.
Even if this money was saved, it is federal money so would not do Texas schools much good.
We probably all agree there is fraud, waste, and abuse with many programs in school districts. The problem is nobody wants to spend the money to get staffs in place who could root it out and deal with the abusers.
However, a students federal lunch status is used for numerous other funding sources. While the lunch program itself is Federal there are other state programs that use your free lunch status to award technology money, special programs funding, and other state funding innitiatives. I agree with everything else you said.
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Like I said, simple enough, cut out those programs and save a ton of money.
I would bet that most of the claims for free/reduced meals are bogus anyway. Maybe we need the FBI to investigate....................................................... FlAg1
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Like I said...Something tells they would not run with it as there will be no prosecutor willing to prosecute it. Not something you could really sink your teeth into, pun intended. eAt&
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Even if this money was saved, it is federal money so would not do Texas schools much good.
The first step is to get the Feds OUT of education. As long as there is a financial incentive for school districts to do something, whether its free lunch apps, bogus attendance policies, etc., they will do what needs to be done to get the money.
We need to take the funding back to the local level. If the locals don't have enough of a tax base, the state can help out, but from a general fund, not one derived from taking funds directly from other districts. This is balanced against sensible objectives all districts must meet and ones they can't fudge on.
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The first step is to get the uil OUT of officiating. As long as there is a financial incentive for them, they will do what needs to be done to get the money.
FIFY
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The sad reality is that conservative estimates are the free lunch program is ripped off to the tune of 1 to 1.5 billion a year (nationwide). That is "federal money" so nobody much cares about it at the local level. And it would cost so much to have a good verification program in place plus an enforcment system to dissuade folks from chesting that nobody wants to set it up. And even if you can prove the fraud or attempted fraud, the case has little prosecutive appeal because at the end of the day, some kid got fed.
Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a winner!!!
The grand sum of $1 Billion dollars is 1/1000 of a Trillion...and we throw trillions around like candy at a parade! One billion is 1/13,000 of our federal debt. It's a drop in the bucket. The problem is that we all have things that are "important" drops to someone. There is a drop or two for the farming industry, a drop or two for NASA, etc.
The only way we ever get spending at the federal level under control is to pass a balanced budget amendment. Only then will someone begin the process of examining the federal bureaucracy with a sharp pencil...the same way we all do with our home finances.
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My umpire just called me and gave me some interesting news. He was working a baseball DH last night and asked one of the coaches about the subvarsity situation next year. The coach said that all SV coaches are being made to get their commercial DL and will be the bus drivers for the SV games. They will also be receiving an additional $40 per game stipend for driving the bus.
So the regular drivers, the ones who need the money more than the coaches and know how to drive the bus the correct way are out of that job and the coaches, who get their coaching stipend will also be getting this.
And the same district will probably raise holy heck about giving the officials a little bit of gas money.
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My umpire just called me and gave me some interesting news. He was working a baseball DH last night and asked one of the coaches about the subvarsity situation next year. The coach said that all SV coaches are being made to get their commercial DL and will be the bus drivers for the SV games. They will also be receiving an additional $40 per game stipend for driving the bus.
So the regular drivers, the ones who need the money more than the coaches and know how to drive the bus the correct way are out of that job and the coaches, who get their coaching stipend will also be getting this.
And the same district will probably raise holy heck about giving the officials a little bit of gas money.
Here in my town, the coaches have always driven the bus.
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In some districts here in Houston they do as well. They do not get a $40 per night stipend for driving the bus however.
That is my point. Driving the bus should be a part of their job description and they should not be paid additional money for it.
I just hate that the 6 to 12 drivers on Monday and Tuesday are losing their gigs. Look for this district to play hardball with us too.
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Brent, any hints on the district?
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The problem is clearly lack of revenue as well as over spending in some districts. It all goes back to 2006 when the Legislature mandated a drop in property taxes. I'm not a huge proponent of higher taxes, but all they have to do is raise property taxes back to where they were which would cure the revenue issue, and make cuts necessary as needed. Failing to adequately educate the children of Texas will be the downfall of our state. If I have to pay higher property taxes to save our educational system, so be it.
And, I will say that I'm a Republican through and through, but Rick Perry is an idiot and should never have been re-elected. He brags about and takes credit for balancing our state's budget, but fails to say that the budget must be balanced by law. What an egotistical tool we have for a governor.
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"And, I will say that I'm a Republican through and through, but Rick Perry is an idiot and should never have been re-elected. He brags about and takes credit for balancing our state's budget, but fails to say that the budget must be balanced by law. What an egotistical tool we have for a governor."
Bingo.
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the state of texas led us to believe that the money generated from the lottery would be used to aid in education, police and fire fighters and nothing else. instead the money goes into the general fund where it is allocated out by the state government and i daresay that it is not going where it was intended. raise hell with the legislators about it but i doubt that it would do any good .
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"And, I will say that I'm a Republican through and through, but Rick Perry is an idiot and should never have been re-elected. He brags about and takes credit for balancing our state's budget, but fails to say that the budget must be balanced by law. What an egotistical tool we have for a governor."
Bingo.
^good
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Texas lottery started sending the money to schools in late 90's. For last several years they have sent about 1 billion per year to the school fund.
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And, I will say that I'm a Republican through and through, but Rick Perry is an idiot and should never have been re-elected. He brags about and takes credit for balancing our state's budget, but fails to say that the budget must be balanced by law. What an egotistical tool we have for a governor.
Agreed!!!! aWaRd
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Mike, there's still about 77 million going to the general revenue fund.
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Yep but that is miniscule in the grand scheme. Hell 1 billion ain't much when compared to the total "need"
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Heck no to raising my property taxes. Hey if they need more money and need a tax to get it find another tax that everyone pays not some poor sap that pays a mortgage instead of rent or free room and board. Sales tax would be best that way no one can say the rich get off easy they will pay more taxes cause they have the money to buy more stuff . If it came down to it I'd vote Texas start an income tax before I'd vote for an increase in property tax I think property tax should be done away with.... FlAg1 FlAg1. (SOAP BOX is now available.)
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:!# Anything but an income tax............................
Too many double meat double cheese, fogged your brain!
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Heck no to raising my property taxes. Hey if they need more money and need a tax to get it find another tax that everyone pays not some poor sap that pays a mortgage instead of rent or free room and board. Sales tax would be best that way no one can say the rich get off easy they will pay more taxes cause they have the money to buy more stuff . If it came down to it I'd vote Texas start an income tax before I'd vote for an increase in property tax I think property tax should be done away with.... FlAg1 FlAg1. (SOAP BOX is now available.)
Better yet - no new or increased taxes (if not reduced taxes), period. Let the governmental offices & programs learn to live within a fixed tax system. Cut non-essential programs and funding (public schools are essential), and leave the schools and taxpayers alone.
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Better yet - no new or increased taxes (if not reduced taxes), period. Let the governmental offices & programs learn to live within a fixed tax system. Cut non-essential programs and funding (public schools are essential), and leave the schools and taxpayers alone.
:!# Anything but an income tax............................
Too many double meat double cheese, fogged your brain!
No Rick they havent fogged my brain but they have shaded my feet.
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No Rick they havent fogged my brain but they have shaded my feet.
LOL