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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: jodibuck on September 07, 2018, 09:49:36 AM

Title: sunglasses
Post by: jodibuck on September 07, 2018, 09:49:36 AM
At an afternoon sub-varsity scrimmage yesterday, we had a very spirited discussion about officials wearing sunglasses.  One of our veteran white hats chastised one of our newbies about wearing his "Oakleys" on the football field.  He said: "we don't wear sunglasses in football". 

I wear prescription eyeglasses and do wear prescription sunglasses for umpiring baseball and softball.  I know when I began officiating football in my white knickers, our veterans did not allow us to wear sunglasses on the football field. 

I cannot find any requirement or recommendation in the NFHS Officials Manual stating sunglasses are not allowed.  I believe each official should be allowed to wear sunglasses (prescription or not) if it helps them see the playing action. 
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: WVABJ1807 on September 07, 2018, 10:01:56 AM
Im a firm believer in not wearing them.  College guys work on saturday afternoons in the sun and you dont see them wearing them. Same goes for the NFL guys.  Now if your Rx glasses automatically tint bc of the sun, thats fine. but no regular sunglasses.  We dont allow it.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: scrounge on September 07, 2018, 10:57:50 AM
I think that outlawing sunglasses is archaic and downright silly, especially at the subvarsity level. Now, of course, do as they do in whatever section of Rome you're in, but in my opinion, this is just a "we've always done it that way" thing with no basis in reason other than *maybe* how it looks on TV. On a superbright Sep Saturday for a JV game? Yea, I'm wearing them.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: brettjr2005 on September 07, 2018, 11:40:20 AM
I think it has to do with the level of communication and transparency that is expected of a football official.  It's similar to the mindset that it's rude when athletes (most commonly racecar drivers) are doing an interview and leave their sunglasses on.  I think that a lot of people feel like there's a "wall" up of sorts when you're wearing sunglasses and that conversation with you isn't as genuine and personal when you have them on.  I don't really have an issue with sunglasses, but I understand it because eye contact and the unspoken communication with the eyes is a natural part of how people communicate and interact  Because baseball umpires are out on the field away from everyone and have practically zero communication with players or managers/coaches, it's not an issue.  With football, you're right there in the middle of the action, constantly directly next to and occasionally even coming into contact with coaches and players and you're constantly communicating with them.  I think that because of those things the sunglasses "wall" is off-putting to some people.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: riffraft on September 07, 2018, 12:54:54 PM
All I know is when I am working the sideline at 6pm for a subvarsity game with the low desert sun burning straight into my eyes, I am wearing my sunglasses until the sun gets below the bleacher. At least I can see somewhat.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: edtude on September 07, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
I think it has to do with the level of communication and transparency that is expected of a football official.  It's similar to the mindset that it's rude when athletes (most commonly racecar drivers) are doing an interview and leave their sunglasses on.  I think that a lot of people feel like there's a "wall" up of sorts when you're wearing sunglasses and that conversation with you isn't as genuine and personal when you have them on.  I don't really have an issue with sunglasses, but I understand it because eye contact and the unspoken communication with the eyes is a natural part of how people communicate and interact  Because baseball umpires are out on the field away from everyone and have practically zero communication with players or managers/coaches, it's not an issue.  With football, you're right there in the middle of the action, constantly directly next to and occasionally even coming into contact with coaches and players and you're constantly communicating with them.  I think that because of those things the sunglasses "wall" is off-putting to some people.

I can understand this completely, but I wear prescription glasses -have never been able to tolerate contacts-- and am very light sensitive. Further depending on the time of day you might be completely blinded and what good is that? So I have prescription sport glasses which are polarized as well as sunsensors. When I am talking to a coach either pregame or discussing anything of import, I simply remove them so that I am eye to eye with him or her. When I am discussing penalty enforcement on the field with a player or any other issue, not so much. I need my glasses or I would be the proverbial blind ref out there!
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: ElvisLives on September 07, 2018, 01:19:53 PM
College guys work on saturday afternoons in the sun and you dont see them wearing them. Same goes for the NFL guys.

Saw some this last weekend.  If you haven't, you will.

I'm old school, and don't like them, either.  But I fear I am a decided minority.

Robert
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on September 07, 2018, 02:02:49 PM
I had lasek surgery on both eyes about 10 years ago and my vision is great.  One side effect is sensitivity to bright sunlight.  Without sunglasses, I couldn't work afternoons or early evenings.

I find it interesting that most NCAA and NFL officials don't wear sunglasses, but an awful lot of coaches do wear them.  If it helps you to see better, isn't that the most important thing?
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bbeagle on September 07, 2018, 03:14:17 PM
I agree with brettjr2005. In my opinion, wearing sunglasses is not professional and shows disrespect. You look sloppy, aloof and someone who doesn't seem to want to be there, would rather be at a beach.

Say you went out on the field:
(a) without your striped shirt tucked in, it's flailing about when you're running
(b) had your zipper all the way down on your striped shirt with your thick burly chest hair all out (with the tinted sunglasses too, you're looking like Burt Reynolds)
(c) when you have a long thin blade of hay/grass in your mouth, sticking out, and you're chewing it all game
(d) when your face and hands are all muddy and dirty from doing some sort of work right before the game
(e) wearing your hat on backwards with the rim facing the back

Those are all very similar, to me, to wearing sunglasses.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: prab on September 07, 2018, 07:14:01 PM
I agree with brettjr2005. In my opinion, wearing sunglasses is not professional and shows disrespect. You look sloppy, aloof and someone who doesn't seem to want to be there, would rather be at a beach.

Say you went out on the field:
(a) without your striped shirt tucked in, it's flailing about when you're running
(b) had your zipper all the way down on your striped shirt with your thick burly chest hair all out (with the tinted sunglasses too, you're looking like Burt Reynolds)
(c) when you have a long thin blade of hay/grass in your mouth, sticking out, and you're chewing it all game
(d) when your face and hands are all muddy and dirty from doing some sort of work right before the game
(e) wearing your hat on backwards with the rim facing the back

Those are all very similar, to me, to wearing sunglasses.

To summarize, bbeagle does not think that wearing sunglasses presents a professional appearance.  Therefore, no official should wear them.  I think that should end the discussion on this matter
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: AlUpstateNY on September 08, 2018, 08:08:18 AM
Unless, of course, someone dares to disagree.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: ilyazhito on September 08, 2018, 10:14:54 AM
I object! Wearing sunglasses is a practical matter, and is approved by certain high school football associations (such as the San Diego County Football Officials Association) with certain guidelines (black or gray lenses, a sports sunglasses design, take them off when talking to coaches, and when no longer needed for visibility).
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bbeagle on September 10, 2018, 07:22:02 AM
To summarize, bbeagle does not think that wearing sunglasses presents a professional appearance.  Therefore, no official should wear them.  I think that should end the discussion on this matter

Thank you. Perfect summarization.  :)

Seriously though, I don't understand the hostility. It's my personal opinion. You have yours. You're acting like I don't have a right to a personal opinion by taunting me. (That's a 15 yard penalty, isn't it?)
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: AlUpstateNY on September 10, 2018, 08:11:52 AM
Thank you. Perfect summarization.  :)

Seriously though, I don't understand the hostility. It's my personal opinion. You have yours. You're acting like I don't have a right to a personal opinion by taunting me. (That's a 15 yard penalty, isn't it?)

"Opinions" are like a-holes, we each have one and it's likely just a little different than anyone else's. We each get to decide when to throw rocks,  but when we do we give up the right to complain about any that are likely to be thrown back.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: TampaSteve on September 10, 2018, 10:41:39 AM
Personally, I dont see why not wear sunglasses. - certainly if they're not bright pink with hello kitty on them and look understated and professional.
Although it's rare, i have seen some college guys with sunglasses.

Interesting though, it's rather common to see MLB unpires wear sunglasses while it's a bit taboo with football.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: UTchad on September 10, 2018, 11:28:46 AM
For subvarsity I ALWAYS wear sunglasses. BUT I also put them on top of my hat when talking with a coach. I think it shows respect that he can see my eyes. They are prescription.

For my friday night games I NEVER wear sunglasses or glasses. Instead I just wear my contacts. But sometimes the first 30 minutes of the game it is difficult to see with the sun in your eyes.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bossman72 on September 11, 2018, 08:33:07 AM
College guys work on saturday afternoons in the sun and you dont see them wearing them. Same goes for the NFL guys. 

You're not looking hard enough.  Both the NFL and some FBS D1 conferences permit sunglasses and they have been worn on the field.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bawags06 on September 11, 2018, 01:06:53 PM
I have a pair of solid black Oakley X-Tens that I will wear for subvarsity games. They are not flashy, and I do take them off to speak with coaches. I agree that eye contact is important, but seeing the field accurately is more important.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bbeagle on September 11, 2018, 02:30:54 PM
I have a pair of solid black Oakley X-Tens that I will wear for subvarsity games. They are not flashy, and I do take them off to speak with coaches. I agree that eye contact is important, but seeing the field accurately is more important.

Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Joe Stack on September 11, 2018, 10:02:30 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with glasses, sunglasses, or clear glasses for eye protection. Anyone saying different is being obnoxious. Your eyes need protection from the sun.

Now, if you wear sunglasses you need to wear them properly. Not over the cap bill; not behind the neck; etc. If it gets too dark for sunglasses, put them in your pocket or in your car.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on September 12, 2018, 06:35:50 AM
In my daze of youth (during Ike & JFK years) I always wore sunglasses to the beach or other locale that the prom queen & her court might hang out. 8]. To me, they were my "peakers" and allowed me to stare rather than glance. While I've never wore them during officiating, I understand their potential need. I would suggest removing them when addressing a coach as, IMHO, eye contact is important to maintain control.

 8] 8] 8] 8] 8] (5 man crew)
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: TampaSteve on September 13, 2018, 12:43:08 PM
Part of our job on the field is to review/verify/ensure et al upon 'safety'.
Protection of our one set of eyes we'll ever get is (seemingly) paramount.
Upon that notion, it seems unreasonable not to allow an official to wear sunglasses.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: red viking on September 14, 2018, 10:16:29 AM
If they help you see better, wear them. That would typically only apply closer to the noon hour or if an official is looking into the sun.

In college, appearance becomes more of a priority because of the television, at least at the D1 level.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: prab on September 14, 2018, 10:45:47 AM
So to expand the discussion a bit, how do you feel about officials with facial hair, beards, goatees, mustaches, etc.?
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on September 14, 2018, 11:11:53 AM
I want to work with officials who hustle, communicate, study the rules, strive to get better, care about the players and the game, and have fun.  I don't care if they wear sunglasses, have beards, or have false teeth.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: BIG DON on September 14, 2018, 12:27:41 PM
Our association allows goatees, mustaches as long as they are kept neat, full beards are a different story
I myself cant grow a beard because 1. is mine grows in patchy, and 2 I am a fulltime fighter and beard are not allowed they interfere with SCBA mask seal

I don't mind crew members that have neatly trimmed beard during the regular season as long as they know that it must be shaved off if we get a State Final

I am guessing the problem come with guy that have (for us old enough to remember) Grizzly Adams or Duck Dynasty type beards     
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: yarnnelg on September 16, 2018, 10:28:54 PM
If they help you see better, wear them. That would typically only apply closer to the noon hour or if an official is looking into the sun.

In college, appearance becomes more of a priority because of the television, at least at the D1 level.

In St Pete/Clearwater we had no problem with wearing sunglasses until the sun set.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: HLinNC on September 18, 2018, 08:48:29 AM
I saw a D1 wing on a tv game wearing shades this past Saturday afternoon, don't remember which game.  It isn't usual by any means.

As to the other elements, and this may have to do with the declining number of officials, I've had guys in my group sporting beards like Grizzly Adams since the Duck Dynasty craze, I'm seeing tattoos not covered anymore, and a new kid this year is still sporting his ponytail since he joined this summer.  Since I came up when all that was considered a no-no, I'm conflicted.  I really don't like it but I've heard none of the guys older than me saying anything about it so I've kept my peace.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bbeagle on September 18, 2018, 09:13:27 AM
Sunglasses are still not allowed in our organization. However, white knickers are still an option. Maybe we're an 'old school' organization?
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: blandis on September 19, 2018, 01:04:51 AM
At one point football officials didn't wear hats. At some point they decided to join the 20th Century and began wearing them sometime after World War II. At one point baseball umpires wouldn't be caught dead wearing sunglasses, now it is common. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE BETTER! DUH! In our association sunglasses are permitted except for Varsity games. This only affects the rare Varsity Saturday afternoon game. This policy is strictly for appearance. 
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: AlUpstateNY on September 19, 2018, 08:18:40 AM
I want to work with officials who hustle, communicate, study the rules, strive to get better, care about the players and the game, and have fun.  I don't care if they wear sunglasses, have beards, or have false teeth.

Sounds reasonable.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on September 23, 2018, 02:38:26 PM
NFL officials wearing sunglasses for Titans at Jacksonville. 😎
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: refjeff on October 07, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
Now go out and get yourself some big black frames
With the glass so dark they won't even know your name
And the choice is up to you cause they come in two classes
Rhinestone shades or cheap sunglasses.

For what it's worth, Billy Gibbons wears a beard too.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on November 11, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
NFL BJ wearing sunglasses in Tampa today.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: the clown on November 11, 2018, 09:55:51 PM
I can remember a few years back a 400lb official telling a slim neatly trimmed bearded new official how unprofessional he looked...
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bbeagle on November 12, 2018, 08:50:55 AM
I can remember a few years back a 400lb official telling a slim neatly trimmed bearded new official how unprofessional he looked...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tins4yoRYFs/TX4d7zLmH7I/AAAAAAAAAj8/-RlXgpC0b9I/s400/%2Belton%2Bjohn%2Bround%2Bgold.jpg)

Now I'll hear people telling me that SOME sunglasses look professional, but OTHERS do not.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: theride on November 20, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
Are sub varsity games less important than varsity games?  I for one, believe that officials should approach all games with the same professionalism no matter the age of the participants.  Those games are just as important to those athletes.  If officials handled all games with the upmost professionalism, then we might have fewer problems with coaches and parents on the sub varsity contests. 
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: KWH on November 20, 2018, 04:21:36 PM
At one point football officials didn't wear hats. At some point they decided to join the 20th Century and began wearing them sometime after World War II.
I am not aware of any time or era where football officials did not wear some type of hat.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on November 20, 2018, 05:22:49 PM
Are sub varsity games less important than varsity games?  I for one, believe that officials should approach all games with the same professionalism no matter the age of the participants.  Those games are just as important to those athletes.  If officials handled all games with the upmost professionalism, then we might have fewer problems with coaches and parents on the sub varsity contests.
I agree that we should be professionals. I highly doubt it would matter to some coaches and/or parents. Some officials are unprofessional and some coaches/parents are fools. The two are not dependent upon one another. IMO.


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Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Stinterp on November 20, 2018, 07:11:54 PM
When you get to the NFL,  you can wear sunglasses.....until then, not on my crew.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on November 21, 2018, 07:26:56 AM
When you get to the NFL,  you can wear sunglasses.....until then, not on my crew.

We should all get a little bit more informed.  Read the available literature about eye protection and the need to wear sunglasses to prevent damage to the eyes from repeated extended periods of bright sunlight (ie: 40-50 game a season during sunlight hours).  This is especially critical as we age (over 40).  The damage that excessive bright sun can do to eyes is irreversible so get educated.  And as a side benefit we can actually see better on a bright sunny day when wearing a quality pair of sunglasses.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: peterparsons on November 21, 2018, 07:56:14 AM
(https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tbt.s3.amazonaws.com/public/CD6KA67KVFFQVHQ6KAOPLKS53I.JPG)

Completely agree with NVFOA_Ump's comments.

The issue isn't (usually) the sun, it's often reflected glare off the field surface. The NFL changed their policy on this about a decade ago (there was an article in Referee magazine about it IIRC) based on feedback from their officials on the problems this was causing at certain stadiums e.g. those ones where there might be a lot of snow lying around on the sidelines.

As someone with quite bad photophobia, I always carry a pair of plain black Oakleys in my kit bag. I've worn them less than half a dozen times in over 500 games, but I'll never travel without them just in case I turn up to a field which is more sand than grass (not that uncommon in the Uk) or (less likely for me) snow covered.

Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on November 21, 2018, 08:16:34 AM
Welcome to the forum, Peter Parsons, I hope you find it both interesting and informative.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: riffraft on November 21, 2018, 08:33:56 AM
I am not aware of any time or era where football officials did not wear some type of hat.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg/1280px-Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg)

1902 Michigan-Minnesota game. Notice the official in a White Jacket and no hat
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on November 21, 2018, 09:10:59 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg/1280px-Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg)

1902 Michigan-Minnesota game. Notice the official in a White Jacket and no hat
Looking at the field conditions, I don't believe his white jacket will remain white for very long! Sometime later this century young  z^ will be looking at pics of our era and say : "WOW, they used to wear knickers like George Washington!!"  :)
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on November 21, 2018, 12:07:40 PM
Two thoughts:

1 - how in the world did he tell the teams apart from each other?
2 - much have been great not to have coaches yelling "Can I get a number?" after every foul

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!!
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: ElvisLives on November 21, 2018, 01:13:48 PM
I wonder if he had a shoe contract?
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: TampaSteve on November 21, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
Maybe I'm missing the boat - which is quite possible.
I'm not understanding the 'no beards' for working HS games.

i'm clean-shaved but it seems it's awfully restrictive for these days/times when 1-beards are OK for professional, conservative businesses (banking, insurance, securities); 2-guys are not DoD or first responders - who have these restrictions (although I do see deputies here with tattoos up their arms).
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Stinterp on November 21, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
How do we feel about tattoos being visible on officials arms, neck, etc?  More and more younger officials have visible tatoos.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: FLAHL on November 21, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
How do we feel about tattoos being visible on officials arms, neck, etc?  More and more younger officials have visible tatoos.
Maybe I'm missing the boat - which is quite possible.
I'm not understanding the 'no beards' for working HS games.


I can show you this play on HUDL. Team A is at the B 10. They throw a pass to the 5, which is intercepted and returned 95 yards for a TD. Player who intercepted zig zagged some but not a lot. My LJ beat the kid to the goal line. He has been to the state finals 3 of the past 4 years, once with me and twice picked up by WHs who were ranked #1 in our association but needed to fill out their crew. He studies, communicates with players and coaches very well, and mentors the HL who works across from him. He has a beard and a tattoo though, so maybe I should look for a replacement? hEaDbAnG

I’m 60, clean shaven, tat-free, old and slow. I don’t want 4 other guys just like me on my crew.  Given the nationwide shortage of officials, we need to do everything we can to bring new people into our ranks. Punishing them for not being or looking “just like us” is not a wise move.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on November 21, 2018, 04:02:36 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg/1280px-Fielding_Yost-1902.jpg)

1902 Michigan-Minnesota game. Notice the official in a White Jacket and no hat

I'm still not convinced this guy doesn't have a hat on...
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on November 21, 2018, 04:33:48 PM
I'm still not convinced this guy doesn't have a hat on...

He does, he's wearing a Scally Cap.  Multiple pics in the football history books showing many of the "original" officials wearing Scally Caps.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on November 21, 2018, 04:50:49 PM
That's what I thought. I'm also not 100% sure he doesn't have sunglasses - or a tattoo, or even a moustache. :sTiR:
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: PABJNR on November 21, 2018, 08:22:07 PM
How do we feel about tattoos being visible on officials arms, neck, etc?  More and more younger officials have visible tatoos.
What if the tattoo is of sunglasses


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Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: prab on November 21, 2018, 09:43:56 PM
What if the tattoo is of sunglasses


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I love it!  +1
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bama_stripes on November 22, 2018, 09:37:21 AM
How do we feel about tattoos being visible on officials arms, neck, etc?  More and more younger officials have visible tatoos.

I personally think they look trashy, but that’s the world we live in today.  I wouldn’t gig an official strictly for having visible tattoos but, all else being equal, I’d select a non-tatted official for a playoff spot over a tatted one.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Stinterp on November 22, 2018, 10:43:14 AM
You are a brave man bama_stripes

...and let the bashing begin...
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: TampaSteve on November 23, 2018, 09:36:44 AM
Fellas I dont think anyone needs to receive a bashing for giving their opinion.

Hope everyone's Thanksgiving was great and most luck t othe guys working this weekedn.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: HLinNC on November 24, 2018, 08:03:15 PM
Here is the thing about tats and beards.  At our level, it is something that we are really now just having to adjust to.  At the next level, not so much.  While we might see it eventually, that generation will probably have to attain the college supervisor level before we do.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: zebrastripes on November 29, 2018, 01:37:56 PM
Here is the thing about tats and beards.  At our level, it is something that we are really now just having to adjust to.  At the next level, not so much.  While we might see it eventually, that generation will probably have to attain the college supervisor level before we do.
Exactly.

I keep reading about how "times have changed." Well guess what, the majority of people in charge are still from the generation where being clean-shaven and tat-free was an expectation. If young officials don't want to oblige, there are plenty of their peers that will.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: refjeff on December 02, 2018, 08:22:54 AM
With increasing numbers of players and coaches at every level sporting beards and tattoos, I really wonder about the prejudices of those who believe officials should not. 

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: zebrastripes on December 03, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
With increasing numbers of players and coaches at every level sporting beards and tattoos, I really wonder about the prejudices of those who believe officials should not. 

Just my opinion.
What prejudices? Those in power are, for the most part, still from the generation where beards and tattoos in professional settings were more frowned upon. What players and coaches do has nothing to do with us in this instance.

Officiating is a lot like conservative occupations, accounting or law for instance. The standards have relaxed some, but the vast majority of officials, and officiating bosses, are still "old school."

If you work for assigners that are cool with beards and tattoos, that is great. If you don't, there are likely plenty of your peers who will oblige. Pick your battles.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: refjeff on December 03, 2018, 04:03:50 PM
What prejudices? Those in power are, for the most part, still from the generation where beards and tattoos in professional settings were more frowned upon. What players and coaches do has nothing to do with us in this instance.

Officiating is a lot like conservative occupations, accounting or law for instance. The standards have relaxed some, but the vast majority of officials, and officiating bosses, are still "old school."

If you work for assigners that are cool with beards and tattoos, that is great. If you don't, there are likely plenty of your peers who will oblige. Pick your battles.
  No tats, but I've had a beard, and sometimes a mustache, for 46 years.

I think you explained the prejudices I was referring to.

Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: zebrastripes on December 03, 2018, 10:41:06 PM
  No tats, but I've had a beard, and sometimes a mustache, for 46 years.

I think you explained the prejudices I was referring to.
No, prejudice would be an assigner choosing officials based on race. Requiring or preferring officials be clean shaven is not prejudice. Wearing a beard and getting tattoos is a CHOICE. An official who chooses to do either is at the mercy of whomever he works for.

If your boss wants your office to be clean shaven for meetings with customers, that's completely within his rights. If you show up to an interview with tattoos all the way down your arms, you are, again, at the mercy of the perceptions that your interviewer has. And right or wrong, many people still have the perception that those who sport beards or visible tattoos are less professional.

There are always choices. You can choose to wear a beard and get a bunch of tattoos and risk the consequences.

And FWIW, I know good officials the are clean shaven and good officials that rock neatly trimmed beards, mustaches, or goatees. But the latter category is, again, taking a risk that someone in power might not be pleased.

I don't know any officials that wear large visible tattoos. The non-officials I know that have them, do not work in "conservative" occupations.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 04, 2018, 08:32:45 AM
Way back to my daze of youth, my mother taught me three life lessons....

"When talking use 'you', 'your' ,'we' and 'us' more than 'I', 'me' and 'my'".

"Look at people for who they are, not what they look like."

"You only get one chance to make a first impression."

If a person wants to : shave his head, wear a pony tail, grow beard, mustache, or expanded waistline, have tattoos, ear rings or whatever; accept him for who he is not what he looks like. That being said, it is human nature to size up a person at first glance. IMHO, making a good first impression is a good way to start off any relationship, whether it be in a job interview, dating scene, or officiating football. Personally, I grew a mustache back in the early 1970's because my girlfriend of that bygone era said it looked sexy. My then girlfriend disappeared within a year...my mustache still remains.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on December 04, 2018, 08:46:09 AM
The guy who mentored me way back when I started umpiring baseball was adamant about making a first impression. Among the many other valuable things he instilled in me was wearing my uniform correctly. He was like, "If you show up looking like an umpire, you will have to prove to them you're not. However, if you show up looking unprofessional, you will have to convince them you are." The same applies to this situation. My opinion is that if you can show up at a football game looking professional in your uniform with facial hair and tats, then by all means do so. If not, you probably need to do something about it...

My son is a youth minister at a local church and a military officer. He has tats on both of his arms. He chooses to cover them up to look professional at both places. I admire and respect him for that. When he's at my house or out in public, he has no problem leaving his tats uncovered. I have no problem with that...
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: AlUpstateNY on December 05, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
Your son seems to have learned, and been taught, to recognize the inherent benefit of being in control of choosing to adapt to different situations, as how and when he chooses, as opposed to allowing others to choose for him.  Sounds like your mentor was recommending the same approach.

Funny, how some important lessons really don't change nearly as much as some try and suggest.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 05, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
Killing time while awaiting a phone call, I decided to delve into our archives to see if this ( 8] Sunglasses  8]) was our hottest topic ever with 67 responses. I discovered the following ...

[/MAY 2, 2017
TOPIC ; FORGETTING YOUR COIN
RESPONSES ; 75

GANG, WE ARE WELL WITHIN STRIKING DISTANCE OF BRINGING THE HOT TOPIC OF SUNGLASSES SURPASSING FORGETTING YOUR COIN....

...START YOUR ENGINES!!!
b]
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on December 05, 2018, 02:56:14 PM
Funny you should mention that. For the first time ever, I forgot my coin during the last playoff game this year. Luckily, my Umpire had a quarter in his pocket.. However, He wasn't wearing sunglasses and as far as I know,  cRaZy doesn't have any tats..
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: JasonTX on December 05, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
When coaches call to complain and don't know the name of the official they usually try to explain what the person looked like and that was never any help to me if they couldn't identify them.  But then there were times where it was, "the guy with the pony tail', or  "the guy with the puffy beard."  This made it easy to single the guy out and investigate the complaint further.  The guys that couldn't be identified couldn't be called out and got away unscathed.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Etref on December 05, 2018, 06:47:37 PM
It is the old adage

You only get to make a first impression once!

Be that a beard, tattoos,overweight, or WEARING SUNGLASSES.
see I managed to get that in her also
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: prab on December 06, 2018, 11:03:49 AM
During the Civil War, many Confederate Generals, including Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and James Longstreet, wore beards.  They lost.

There are no Union Generals known to have worn sunglasses.  They won.

Coincidence?  I don't think so!
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 06, 2018, 11:16:11 AM
During the Civil War, many Confederate Generals, including Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and James Longstreet, wore beards.  They lost.

There are no Union General known to have worn sunglasses.  They won.

Coincidence?  I don't think so!
I believe James A. Garfield was the last president to wear a beard. He also lost, at the hand of a disgruntled office seeker at a railroad station.

PS : Sunglasses are on the verge of surpassing Forgetting Your Coin as the most posted post on NFHS site in the modern era!!! A toast to poster that puts Sunglasses over the top.

 aWaRd
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ball Spotter on December 06, 2018, 01:46:16 PM
This reminds me of when my state started allowing us to wear shoes with "some" white on them.   Some guys were dead set against it and stuck with the all blacks.  Their argument was that the "some white" shoes looked "sloppy an unprofessional". 

 I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Etref on December 06, 2018, 01:56:08 PM
I believe James A. Garfield was the last president to wear a beard. He also lost, at the hand of a disgruntled office seeker at a railroad station.

PS : Sunglasses are on the verge of surpassing Forgetting Your Coin as the most posted post on NFHS site in the modern era!!! A toast to poster that puts Sunglasses over the top.

 aWaRd



What is the over/under on locking the thread prior to surpassing the coin thread?
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on December 06, 2018, 02:24:36 PM
This reminds me of when my state started allowing us to wear shoes with "some" white on them.   Some guys were dead set against it and stuck with the all blacks.  Their argument was that the "some white" shoes looked "sloppy an unprofessional". 

 I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.

There is a guy on my crew who insists on wearing all-black shoes, even though the rest of us have "some" white on ours. He is also the youngest guy on our crew. He also has sleeve tats on both arms. He doesn't wear sunglasses though.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Etref on December 06, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
Well it did not get locked prior to going over.


I win, I win!!!!!

 aWaRd
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: zebrastripes on December 06, 2018, 08:10:22 PM
This reminds me of when my state started allowing us to wear shoes with "some" white on them.   Some guys were dead set against it and stuck with the all blacks.  Their argument was that the "some white" shoes looked "sloppy an unprofessional". 

 I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.
I don’t think it’s the same thing. Shoe standards, overall, have relaxed as people realize that allowing white trim leaves officials many more options that work the best for their feet. Additionally white trim looks good with the white stripe on the pants.

Grooming standards haven’t relaxed nearly as much. I don’t work college football currently, but I can attest that if you show up to a college basketball hiring camp with white or gray trim on your shoes, it probably won’t be an issue as long as you can officiate. But if you show up to camp with a beard or an armful or tattoos, you’re not getting hired. Period.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 07, 2018, 07:39:02 AM
While we have covered an official from his nose ( 8] sunglasses  8]) to his toes (shoes) ,we have yet to discuss his most important part...HIS BRAIN yEs: !!

PS : Congrats to Etref for taking us into unchartered territory. Sorta' like Roger Maris's 61 home run or Jeff Banester's  4 minute mile !
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: refjeff on December 07, 2018, 08:39:12 AM
I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.
  I had a beard when I officiated my first game, 46 years ago. 

I still wear all black shoes though.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Etref on December 07, 2018, 10:08:56 AM
While we have covered an official from his nose ( 8] sunglasses  8]) to his toes (shoes) ,we have yet to discuss his most important part...HIS BRAIN yEs: !!

PS : Congrats to Etref for taking us into unchartered territory. Sorta' like Roger Maris's 61 home run or Jeff Banester's  4 minute mile !


Actually Ralph, if you will look at the Classics forum we had several over 200 replies.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bossman72 on December 07, 2018, 12:56:02 PM
This reminds me of when my state started allowing us to wear shoes with "some" white on them.   Some guys were dead set against it and stuck with the all blacks.  Their argument was that the "some white" shoes looked "sloppy an unprofessional". 

 I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.

The all-black shoes look orthopedic.

But I see why states have that mandate.  Because then you get to the point where it's "how much white is too much"?  They want to avoid that debate.  It also ensures everyone's shoes look basically the same.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: AlUpstateNY on December 08, 2018, 11:16:25 AM
Certainly could be mistaken, but I thought the purpose of wearing a "Uniform" was to actually all look alike, and in our circumstance be clearly distinguishable from the other participants occupying the playing field.

At higher (far more commercial) levels there seems to be a serious perception that standardizing, and highlighting, certain brands of apparel (including footwear) offers considerable commercial marketing advantage, albeit to a relatively small segment of the overall viewing audience, that might well be concerned and influenced by the "orthopedic" value of the offerings.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: OSU65 on December 08, 2018, 02:06:39 PM
I found this while looking around for the elements that distinguish a job from a profession.

Like it or not, you are being judged by how you look, how you dress, and how you carry yourself—and, if you’re lucky, how you do your job.

I had lunch yesterday with an old friend. I’ve known him for over 30 years. In fact, he introduced me to my wife. Unfortunately, we don’t see each other very often and hadn’t sat down across the table from each other for several years.

Let me preface what I’m about to say with, “I’m comfortable with my jeans and sneakers.”

Dave is a corporate attorney. He entered the restaurant immaculately dressed, although he wasn’t wearing a tie. I was dressed as I usually am (I did wear what I thought was a nice button-up shirt—it was even tucked in). Dave hasn’t changed much since we knew each other in our early twenties, while I am decidedly more rotund, sporting gray hair and a nearly white beard. He could pass for 10 years younger than me, although he’s actually a couple of years my senior (it must be all the time he wastes at the gym).

As we left the restaurant together I made an off-handed comment about how I appreciated that he got “all dressed up” to have lunch with me. He didn’t miss a beat, “I guess I just take our friendship more seriously than you do.”


Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on December 08, 2018, 04:22:36 PM
I'll beat the dead horse:

This is available online on several websites -

The longer the eyes are exposed to solar radiation, the greater the risk of developing cataracts or macular degeneration later in life. It is not clear how much exposure to solar radiation will cause damage. Therefore, whenever you spend time outdoors, wear quality sunglasses that offer UV protection and a hat or cap with a wide brim. Also, certain contact lenses can provide additional UV protection.
To provide adequate protection for your eyes, sunglasses should:
•   block out 99 to 100 percent of both UV-A and UV-B radiation;
•   screen out 75 to 90 percent of visible light;
•   have lenses that are perfectly matched in color and free of distortion and imperfection; and
•   have lenses that are gray for proper color recognition.
If you participate in potentially eye-hazardous outdoor work or sports, your sunglass lenses should be made from polycarbonate or Trivex® material. These lenses provide the most impact resistance.

If you spend a lot of time outdoors in bright sunlight, consider wearing wraparound frames for additional protection from the harmful solar radiation.

I'm there and have both.  My schedule always had 40-50 games in the afternoons, many with bright sun.  Get educated.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: refjeff on December 08, 2018, 05:50:26 PM
Yikes!   My annual eye test show no macular degeneration, but I do have "age appropriate" cataracts.  I have worn a hate outdoors for a long time, but I don't wear sunglasses as much as I used to.  I might have to rethink that, and maybe get some prescription shades. 8]
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: OSU65 on December 08, 2018, 06:35:07 PM
Hey guys.....I don't care what U wear. Wear a clown suit and blow a kazoo if that floats your boat. My point is that you have chosen to be something bigger than yourself; a football official. Don't tell me that part of the reason you have chosen that profession has nothing to do with the respect you receive while in "uniform"! The key is "uniform". I'm a retired military flyer. We wear sunglasses, but they are "uniform". Same frame, non-polarized, etc. If you don't like the limitations of the current uniform just get your association to change the standards for items of dress, tattoos, haircuts, etc. If you want to be respected as part of a profession you are asked to give up some individual liberties....while involved in that profession. How you dress in your private life is your business. The problem is when an individual takes it upon himself to "draw the line" on what is acceptable for that profession. Being an official is a profession....not just a job. It sounds to me that some of you want to keep your individual freedoms while garnering the benefits of being a member of a respected, although much maligned, profession. 

Uniforms change as do standards. In the military you still are required to wear an approved uniform, standard eyewear, have a haircut within standards, etc. Tattoos that are visible were once a no/no, but that standard has eased. The point is that the limits still remain a defined standard.

The question really is what individual freedoms are you willing to give up to be a member of the profession you have chosen. If you don't like the standard get your organization to change the guidelines. It's not the glasses, the stripes, the haircut, the tattoos. It's the idea that you are a professional. The fans expect and respect that. Want to stop a play......carry an air horn. That whistle is so.......yesterday.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: bama_stripes on December 09, 2018, 08:03:24 AM
Ahem.....

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-nfl-refs-used-wrist-mounted-horns-before-whistles/

BLACK BEARS RULE!
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: riffraft on December 10, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
This reminds me of when my state started allowing us to wear shoes with "some" white on them.   Some guys were dead set against it and stuck with the all blacks.  Their argument was that the "some white" shoes looked "sloppy an unprofessional". 

 I mean no disrespect by saying this but this seems to be a generational divide.

That's me, I hate all the white that I see on shoes. But then again, I am an old stick in the mud.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 11, 2018, 11:53:52 AM

Actually Ralph, if you will look at the Classics forum we had several over 200 replies.
After further review....Classics forum's top topic was :
               ARKANSAS-VANDY EJECTION PLAY
               POSTS :   120
               LAST POST : NOVEMBER  2011

Many Classics had many views, but the above was the only one I saw with 100+ post.

White on shoes : You may notice that on this year's Officials Manual we relented and modified the statement on shoes to :

"Shoes MAY have SOME white on them...."

EVEN WHILE "SUNGLASSES" HASN'T QUITE REACHED THE POPULARITY OF A 7 YEAR OLD EJECTION, WE ARE STILL POSTING IN
                  RARE AIR
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: TampaSteve on December 17, 2018, 02:01:11 PM
For what it's worth:
NCAA volleyball finals this weekend - official had a forearm tattoo.
Cheers.
Title: Re: sunglasses
Post by: CalhounLJ on December 17, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
Just when I thought the thread had died. 


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