Author Topic: HCT in championship game today  (Read 754 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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HCT in championship game today
« on: December 18, 2024, 06:54:42 PM »
https://youtu.be/JiSkxT1WijY

This was flagged as a HCT today... thoughts on it? Thanks to TXMike for creating the youtube video of it.

Offline Cowtown Ref

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2024, 09:54:30 AM »
I would have stayed off that penalty

IMO he wasnt "abruptly" pulled down.  I know its not in the rule anywhere but the ball carrier was still able to go forward.  He wasnt pulled back or taken straight down.

However, I do think this call would be supported by an evaluator


Offline bctgp

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2024, 01:17:14 PM »
No foul

Offline JasonTX

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2024, 03:19:21 PM »
dammitbobby, when you successfully got the word "abrupt" added to the rule book, was this what you had in mind? 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2024, 08:46:19 AM »
dammitbobby, when you successfully got the word "abrupt" added to the rule book, was this what you had in mind?

No - the reason I suggested the change was due to a situation where the defender 'rode' him for a while, then yanked him down and buckled him. I got talked off of the foul by the B (I was wing) because he didn't pull him down immediately upon engaging.

I do not think this (clip) is a foul; even though he grasps the nameplate area, he doesn't pull him backwards and buckle his knees; he actually falls forward, like a normal tackle, with the only difference being the location of the tackler's hands. I think if would be the same result if he had his hands outside the nameplate area on the sides, or grasped him anywhere else, really. The point of it being a foul is that it causes a dangerous condition for the runner; I don't think this action puts the runner's legs or knees in danger of injury.*

*No danger of injury from a HCT perspective, but do I think this is a good example of a hip drop tackle, which is prohibited in the NFL, where the defender uses freehanging bodyweight to bring the runner down. So while this tackle IMO has a higher chance of injury, it's not related to the HCT aspect of grasping him in the nameplate area.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2024, 09:18:11 AM »
I do not think this (clip) is a foul; even though he grasps the nameplate area, he doesn't pull him backwards and buckle his knees;

Pulling him backward is not a requirement. Simply pulling him down is the requirement, which he did. I would support this call, with the rule we have today.
In full disclosure, I have never liked this rule. I'd be OK if they would go back to making it a grasp of the neck opening of the jersey and/or the shoulder pads. We can't eliminate all of the danger in this game. The risk of a BC being taken down by a player grasping a jersey (other than at the neck opening) is just a risk the players have to accept.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2024, 09:23:00 AM »
Not a foul.  Not even that close.  Hand in the middle of the jersey.  And I thought the Referee's signal was a little lax.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2024, 10:41:07 AM »
Pulling him backward is not a requirement. Simply pulling him down is the requirement, which he did. I would support this call, with the rule we have today.
In full disclosure, I have never liked this rule. I'd be OK if they would go back to making it a grasp of the neck opening of the jersey and/or the shoulder pads. We can't eliminate all of the danger in this game. The risk of a BC being taken down by a player grasping a jersey (other than at the neck opening) is just a risk the players have to accept.

Pulling him down abruptly is the requirement; and to me that word means the rulemakers intended to differentiate between a normal tackle and something that is dangerous to the runner. I don't see this as abruptly pulling him down, just pulling him down, as he was able to gain ground after the initial contact, and if he were pulled down abruptly, I don't think that would be the case.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2024, 11:05:44 AM »
And this is exactly why I don't like this rule. It is so open to interpretation. We have consistently seen foul ruling for actions such as this supported by Shaw and NCAA coordinators, as much as many of us might view this action as non-threatening and not a foul.
Me? I'm saying foul, just trying to be consistent with what we have seen from Shaw, et al.

Offline GoodScout

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2024, 11:23:11 AM »
Yes, I too don't like this flag and would have laid off it.

Maybe the Rules Committee, instead of trying to crib NCAA rules to add to our difficulties, could spend their time next month cleaning up the descriptions of the rules they already have instead. #JustAThought

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: HCT in championship game today
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2024, 12:48:39 PM »
Yes, I too don't like this flag and would have laid off it.

Maybe the Rules Committee, instead of trying to crib NCAA rules to add to our difficulties, could spend their time next month cleaning up the descriptions of the rules they already have instead. #JustAThought

I just created a thread for that.  :)