UNS at Goal Line

[TXMike]

Live or dead ball UNS .   https://youtu.be/grptzsPRSwE?feature=shared

[dammitbobby]

Live ball UNS for me. Unless the wing is absolutely confident that the ball broke the plane before he started his shenanigans (can't tell from the camera angle)

If I were the wing, my argument for live ball would be that the player's actions began when he struck the pose, before he extended his arms out, which would be outside the EZ... same principle as catching a holding call where it starts, not where it ends.

[ncwingman]

I'd say the QB had a live ball foul there, he clearly intended to stop/pose prior to the goal line, so I'll honor his wishes.

I also have a dead ball UNS on the production crew. Why would you cut to that end zone camera behind the goal post who doesn't have the ball carrier in frame?

[ElvisLives]

Live ball, and if anyone disagrees, they are simply wrong. Get your arse in the end zone, then do your Fosbury Flop. Even better, after you get in the end zone, just drop the ball where you are, then go shake the hands of your blockers and be grateful. 🤨

[Kalle]

If you have blown your whistle then you can say that this is a DB UNS. Otherwise it is a live-ball foul.

[AlUpstateNY]

If you have blown your whistle then you can say that this is a DB UNS. Otherwise it is a live-ball foul.

I suspect most, if not all, are well aware that "Showboating" has become an ever expanding, unnecessary & potentially threatening situation, not to be confused with genuine (but reasonable) jubilation, that may provide fuel to unnecessary, and troubling, reaction.  It would seem that simply eliminating the frequency/drama of such consistently escalating behavior, is far more beneficial (to the sport) than repeatedly dealing with, and unfortunately addressing it. 

Addressing these situations initially, with both the player(s) and BOTH Head Coaches initially, that such behavior is unacceptable & repetition will be subject to serious penalty, although minimally time consuming, once recognized should prove an eventual deterrent, beneficial to the Sport. 

Allowing this nonsense to exist, unchecked, is INEVITABLY likely to expand and further threaten the principle of respectful, and indeed friendly, competition and mutual sportsmanship so important to the, history and purpose, of the game.

[ElvisLives]

If you have blown your whistle then you can say that this is a DB UNS. Otherwise it is a live-ball foul.

If you have blown your whistle then you can say that this is a DB UNS. Otherwise it is a live-ball foul.

I’m a bit confused, Kalle. Do you mean a ruling of a dead-ball foul? If so, they get the TD, with the penalty on the Try or the succeeding kickoff. Not much of a deterrent toward this type of un-sportsmanship (that very clearly happened before the ball broke the plane of the goal line).
The better, and correct, call is a live-ball UNS, so this player (and his team) will be encouraged to play the game with sportsmanship. No score, plus 15 yards and repeat the down. (Truthfully, I wish they’d make these LOD, too.)

Did you mean something else?

[bossman72]

Live ball for sure.
PS- I hate this rule enforcement.

[ElvisLives]

Live ball for sure.
PS- I hate this rule enforcement.

As in not enough penalty?

[Kalle]

I’m a bit confused, Kalle. Do you mean a ruling of a dead-ball foul? If so, they get the TD, with the penalty on the Try or the succeeding kickoff. Not much of a deterrent toward this type of un-sportsmanship (that very clearly happened before the ball broke the plane of the goal line).
The better, and correct, call is a live-ball UNS, so this player (and his team) will be encouraged to play the game with sportsmanship. No score, plus 15 yards and repeat the down. (Truthfully, I wish they’d make these LOD, too.)

Did you mean something else?

I mean that if you, as the wing, have blown your whistle before the showboating starts, you can rule this as a DB foul. If you haven't yet blown your whistle, you should rule it as a LB foul.

[bossman72]

As in not enough penalty?

I like the old rule where it was live ball treated as dead ball.

[ElvisLives]

I mean that if you, as the wing, have blown your whistle before the showboating starts, you can rule this as a DB foul. If you haven't yet blown your whistle, you should rule it as a LB foul.

Well, yeah, if the BC has crossed the GL, and a whistle has sounded, then the showboating occurs, that’s a dead-ball scenario. But, it sounds like you are suggesting that a whistle could be sounded at the moment the showboating action begins in the field of play. That’s an inadvertent whistle. Yeah, the showboating afterward becomes a dead-ball foul, so Team A will get a 15-yard penalty, either at the previous spot and repeat the down, or from the spot of the foul, and next down (whatever that might be).

On uncontested ‘diving’ actions that are very near the goal line, coordinators tell their staffs to try to rule that as happening after the ball has broken the GL, and go with dead-ball foul. But, in the play you showed, the showboating happened so long ahead of ball crossing the GL, and is so ridiculously orchestrated, it needs to be a live-ball foul, and penalized from the spot and the down repeated.

[Kalle]

Well, yeah, if the BC has crossed the GL, and a whistle has sounded, then the showboating occurs, that’s a dead-ball scenario. But, it sounds like you are suggesting that a whistle could be sounded at the moment the showboating action begins in the field of play. That’s an inadvertent whistle. Yeah, the showboating afterward becomes a dead-ball foul, so Team A will get a 15-yard penalty, either at the previous spot and repeat the down, or from the spot of the foul, and next down (whatever that might be).

On uncontested ‘diving’ actions that are very near the goal line, coordinators tell their staffs to try to rule that as happening after the ball has broken the GL, and go with dead-ball foul. But, in the play you showed, the showboating happened so long ahead of ball crossing the GL, and is so ridiculously orchestrated, it needs to be a live-ball foul, and penalized from the spot and the down repeated.

I was unclear. I meant that if you are trailing the play and not at the pylon, and you are unsure as to if the action happens before the ball becomes dead, the best rule of thumb is that if you have sounded your whistle to indicate that the ball has crossed the goal line before the action happens, you can go with a DB foul. In all other cases make this a LB foul to deter any further such actions. This might be against what NCAA coordinators want, but I prefer sending a clear message that this is not wanted on the field.

[ElvisLives]

I was unclear. I meant that if you are trailing the play and not at the pylon, and you are unsure as to if the action happens before the ball becomes dead, the best rule of thumb is that if you have sounded your whistle to indicate that the ball has crossed the goal line before the action happens, you can go with a DB foul. In all other cases make this a LB foul to deter any further such actions. This might be against what NCAA coordinators want, but I prefer sending a clear message that this is not wanted on the field.

OK, now I fully understand, and concur.  What you say here is 100% correct.

But, personally, I long for the days when anything more than a chest bump was a UNS. A “first down” signal would have drawn multiple flags.

[GoodScout]

Live-ball UNS. Step it off slowly. Make it hurt

[dammitbobby]

I 100% support making this LOD. That would put an end to junk like this a lot quicker than 15 on the try or kickoff ever will.

[Legacy Zebra]

Step it off slowly. Make it hurt

What a terrible attitude. Just mark it off like any other penalty. It’s not our job to “make it hurt”. That is so needlessly antagonistic.

[AlUpstateNY]

I 100% support making this LOD. That would put an end to junk like this a lot quicker than 15 on the try or kickoff ever will.

Agreed, but what may well make this a whole lot simpler, would be PUT AN END TO THIS DAMN "CELEBRATION" NONSENSE. Create a new, separate rule to deal with ALL "Celebrations" (Which I completely presume would be rapidly adapted by NFHS rule makers (at least the smart ones). Unfortunately NFL would likely object at the behest of TV productions, at least initially. 

At all levels players are identified by the numbers shown on both front & back of the players Jerseys, and most include players names (to help those spectators "numerically" challenged).

The "Celebration" practice has grown seriously exaggerated in recent years, which is likely to increase under the current mode, as will be the frustration by those opponents who have been demonstrated against.  "Good Play" is recognized by teammates, opponents & news media without any need to "Rub an opponent's nose" in a choregraphed public celebration.  It's really "NOT COOL" and risks needless embarrassment for, and hostility with, opponents which all to easily builds resentment, and potential hostility which DO NOT serve the Game well.

Endless argument and discussion about "specifics" can be avoided by COMPLETELY PROHIBITING what seems to be a needless practice.

[bama_stripes]

That horse left the barn several years ago.  And he ain’t coming back.

[oldtimerref]

I am confused about this and have been retired for many years so I am just asking for clarification. For many years we were told that the ball becomes dead when whistle sounds or when ball crosses the goal line for a TD.  This seems to mean that any act after the TD would be a dead ball foul. Is this a correct ruling or am I  wrong.

[Kalle]

I am confused about this and have been retired for many years so I am just asking for clarification. For many years we were told that the ball becomes dead when whistle sounds or when ball crosses the goal line for a TD.  This seems to mean that any act after the TD would be a dead ball foul. Is this a correct ruling or am I  wrong.

That is correct. What eg. I'm saying is that if you are unsure as to if the ball was still live, make it live.