Forward Fumble Definition

[MBK]

Although 4-3-1 Exception references the term "forward fumble", it isn't defined in the rules. I see two possible definitions:

(1) The ball goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Redding supports this definition.

(2) The initial direction of the fumble when the runner loses possession is toward the opponent's goal line.

A case in point and likely scenario would be if the runner fumbles towards his own goal line but the ball goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Although 4-3-1 Exception references the term "forward fumble", it isn't defined in the rules. I see two possible definitions:

(1) The ball goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Redding supports this definition.

(2) The initial direction of the fumble when the runner loses possession is toward the opponent's goal line.

A case in point and likely scenario would be if the runner fumbles towards his own goal line but the ball goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble.

Not sure what you asking here?  Forward is always in the direction the team is headed toward the opponents EZ.  Backward is the opposite way.  The direction of any fumble in my mind is one or the other (forward/backward).  I don't see any need for further definition.

[Patrick E.]

My $0.02 -

A's ball 1st and 10 at the A 30-yardline.

A11 runs to the left outside the hash mark and fumbles the ball forward at the A 25-yard line.  In an attempt to recover the ball, B56 muffs the ball at the A 28-yard line.  The ball goes OOB at the:

1. A 35-yard line. Stop the game clock when the ball goes OOB. 40-second play clock. The ball goes back to the A 25-yard line on the left hash. Start the game clock with a silent wind.

2. A 20-yard line. Stop the game clock when the ball goes OOB. 40-second play clock. The ball is spotted at the A 20-yard line on the left hash. Game clock will start on the snap.

When considering whether a fumble is forward or backward when it goes OOB, a fumble's direction is determined by the relation of the OOB spot relative to the spot of the fumble.

[VALJ]

Not sure what you asking here?  Forward is always in the direction the team is headed toward the opponents EZ.  Backward is the opposite way.  The direction a fumble in my mind is one or the other (forward/backward).  I don't see any need for further definition.

While I think the idea is clearly "does the ball go out of bounds beyond or behind where it's fumbled, I think I see what he’s driving at.  Is it a “forward fumble” because the ball goes OOB beyond the spot of the fumble, or because it lands beyond the spot of the fumble?


SITUATION: A7 is running and fumbles the ball at the B30 yard line.  The ball (a) lands on the B28, then rolls out of bounds at the B25; (b) lands on the B32, then takes a funny bounce and rolls out of bounds at the B25; (c) lands on the B28, then rolls out of bounds at the B32.


A is obviously a fumble forwards, and would be returned to the spot of the fumble.  My understanding of the way the rule is written is that the determination of whether a ball is fumbles forward or not is where the ball rolls out of bounds, so (b) would be returned to the spot of the fumble, while (c) would be spotted at the B32. 

[ncwingman]

(1) The ball goes out of bounds beyond the spot of the fumble. Redding supports this definition.

Yes, this is the correct answer.

(2) The initial direction of the fumble when the runner loses possession is toward the opponent's goal line

This is incorrect. Please don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. I agree that it's poor wording, but it doesn't have to be confusing.

1) Did the runner fumble the ball?
2) Did the ball go out bounds between the goal lines before possession was regained?
3) Is the spot of #2 closer to the opponent's goal line than the spot of #1?

If the answer to all three is "yes", then you return the ball to the spot of the fumble. If any are "no", then don't do anything new and treat it like you did last year. How the ball gets from the spot of the fumble to the spot where it goes out of bounds is irrelevant.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Yes, this is the correct answer.

This is incorrect. Please don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. I agree that it's poor wording, but it doesn't have to be confusing.

1) Did the runner fumble the ball?
2) Did the ball go out bounds between the goal lines before possession was regained?
3) Is the spot of #2 closer to the opponent's goal line than the spot of #1?

If the answer to all three is "yes", then you return the ball to the spot of the fumble. If any are "no", then don't do anything new and treat it like you did last year. How the ball gets from the spot of the fumble to the spot where it goes out of bounds is irrelevant.

 

[Ralph Damren]

Footballs aren't round and don't always take tru bounces. If a fumble's first bounce is backward followed by a forward bounce or muff and goes OOB, our new rule applies. 

[bama_stripes]

The intent of the rule is to prevent A from profiting from a fumble that goes OOB in advance (“forward”) of the spot where possession was lost.  If the ball goes OOB behind that spot, they haven’t gained any advantage.

[sczeebra]

Situation: A12 completes a pass downfield to A84 at the 50. A84 runs 5 yards to the B45 where he fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the B40. A12 was roughed on the play. Y'all know what the penalty enforcement says. Could we not change (dead ball spot) to succeeding spot next year?

[ncwingman]

Situation: A12 completes a pass downfield to A84 at the 50. A84 runs 5 yards to the B45 where he fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the B40. A12 was roughed on the play. Y'all know what the penalty enforcement says. Could we not change (dead ball spot) to succeeding spot next year?

Oh, look. It's our old friend "Unintended Consequences".

I think if you go for an overly literal reading of the rule, there are several places that this all falls apart, which is why we shouldn't get all overly literal here.

RTP is enforced from the dead ball spot if A has possession of the ball at the end of the down. This can mean one of two things:

1) A has player possession of the ball, which is why the penalty is enforced from the previous spot if the pass is incomplete.
2) A has team possession of the ball, so if B recovers the fumble, the penalty isn't enforced from the end of B's run. (Yes, there's a caveat about no change of possession, but not relevant to my point)

If 1 is true, then previously if A fumbled the ball out of bounds at the end of the play, we should have enforced from the previous spot, but if 2 is true, then we should enforce from where an incomplete pass hits the ground?

Neither of those is what we do, nor do I suggest we should do that. So, I suggest we do what we've always done -- if A is in team possession of the ball at the end of the play (and there has been no change of possession), enforce from the succeeding spot, otherwise previous spot. Maybe we should fix the wording of the rule as well, but don't do anything silly between now and then?

[NVFOA_Ump]

Oh, look. It's our old friend "Unintended Consequences".

IMHO I believe that we all know the clear intent of the "forward fumble" rule and given how NFHS tends to "fix" things I do not believe that this needs to be fixed.  Just my 2 cents.

[bama_stripes]

I have no problem with enforcing this from the B-45.  Under the new rule, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble.  It’s as if A84 got tackled there.