Football Officiating > Texas Topics
My answers
dammitbobby:
--- Quote from: Kalle on April 08, 2026, 12:18:23 PM ---Still B 1/10 B-5.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: TxJim on April 08, 2026, 11:45:44 AM ---After talking with Elvis, lets modify the question to test how well we all understand this rule...
1 (modified). 4/Goal @ B-2. QB A10 turns to hand the ball to A22. The exchange is muffed at the B-4. A22 catches the loose ball at the B-5 and runs into the end zone. Ruling?
--- End quote ---
This is probably a very inelegant answer, but here's mine:
Result of the play a turnover on downs, B 1/10 @B-5. Even though A22 'caught' the loose ball (as opposed to 'recovered') it is not considered a backwards pass, but by rule it is still a live ball in flight.
Relevant rules:
2-2-1: A pass, kick or fumble that has not yet touched the ground is a live ball in flight.
2-2-3-b: All players are eligible to touch, catch or recover a fumble (Exceptions: Rules 7-2-2-a-Exc.2 (4th down fumble rule) and 8-3-2-d-5 (a try play)) or a backward pass.
2-4-3-a-1: To catch a ball means that a player secures firm control with the hand(s) or arm(s) of a live ball in flight
before the ball touches the ground, and
2-11-1: To fumble the ball is to lose player possession by any act other than passing, kicking or successful handing. The status of the ball is a fumble.
2-11-2: To muff the ball is to touch the ball in an unsuccessful attempt to catch or recover it. Muffing the ball does not change its status.
ElvisLives:
--- Quote from: dammitbobby on April 08, 2026, 12:36:47 PM ---This is probably a very inelegant answer, but here's mine:
Result of the play a turnover on downs, B 1/10 @B-5. Even though A22 'caught' the loose ball (as opposed to 'recovered') it is not considered a backwards pass, but by rule it is still a live ball in flight.
Relevant rules:
2-2-1: A pass, kick or fumble that has not yet touched the ground is a live ball in flight.
2-2-3-b: All players are eligible to touch, catch or recover a fumble (Exceptions: Rules 7-2-2-a-Exc.2 (4th down fumble rule) and 8-3-2-d-5 (a try play)) or a backward pass.
2-4-3-a-1: To catch a ball means that a player secures firm control with the hand(s) or arm(s) of a live ball in flight
before the ball touches the ground, and
2-11-1: To fumble the ball is to lose player possession by any act other than passing, kicking or successful handing. The status of the ball is a fumble.
2-11-2: To muff the ball is to touch the ball in an unsuccessful attempt to catch or recover it. Muffing the ball does not change its status.
--- End quote ---
Bobby, you are not wrong, but the most relevant rule is, in fact, is 7-2-2-a-2 - the fourth down fumble rule. Check it, and come back with the pertinent language. It is quite clear.
ElvisLives:
--- Quote from: Kalle on April 08, 2026, 12:18:23 PM ---Still B 1/10 B-5.
And how about this?
4/Goal @ B-2. QB A10 muffs the long snap at B-8. A22 recovers the loose ball at the B-7 and runs into the end zone. Ruling?
--- End quote ---
I KNOW! I KNOW! (We need a raised hand emoji! :) ). But, I’ll let someone else respond.
dammitbobby:
--- Quote from: ElvisLives on April 08, 2026, 01:06:23 PM ---Bobby, you are not wrong, but the most relevant rule is, in fact, is 7-2-2-a-2 - the fourth down fumble rule. Check it, and come back with the pertinent language. It is quite clear.
--- End quote ---
7-2-2-a-2: On fourth down before a change of team possession, when a Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball is dead. If the catch or recovery is beyond the spot of the fumble, the ball is returned to the spot of the fumble. If the catch or recovery is behind the spot of the fumble, the ball remains at the spot of the catch or recovery.
This is why it is at the 5, instead of the 2.
Like I said, I knew it was inelegant, I just couldn't find the words to be concise about it. Although I did pause when answering, as the catch portion made me wonder if that deemed it a backwards pass... which is why I posted the other references, to confirm that in fact it is not.
ElvisLives:
--- Quote from: dammitbobby on April 08, 2026, 02:09:24 PM ---7-2-2-a-2: On fourth down before a change of team possession, when a Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball is dead. If the catch or recovery is beyond the spot of the fumble, the ball is returned to the spot of the fumble. If the catch or recovery is behind the spot of the fumble, the ball remains at the spot of the catch or recovery.
This is why it is at the 5, instead of the 2.
Like I said, I knew it was inelegant, I just couldn't find the words to be concise about it. Although I did pause when answering, as the catch portion made me wonder if that deemed it a backwards pass... which is why I posted the other references, to confirm that in fact it is not.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely, and almost all correct. But, I was trying to point out that "when a Team A fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler," that invokes the 4th down fumble rule. The ball, loose from a fumble, doesn't have to hit the ground to be considered a fumble. As you referenced, a loose ball "in flight" from a fumble, is still a fumble, and, thus, qualifies for the 4th down fumble rule, even if the ball doesn't travel but inches from the fumbler's hands before being caught.
When I said 'almost all correct,' I am wondering why you said, "...at the 5, instead of the 2." How/why would we put it at the 2, otherwise?
Good discussions. I like these.
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