IW in Wild Card Game...

[RMR]

Was it just me or did the crew just cover up an IW on a TD in the Bengals/Raiders game?

[dammitbobby]

💯

https://youtu.be/lpRT-4PxK20

[dammitbobby]

Statement from NFL

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/nfl-releases-statement-on-controversial-call-during-bengals-raiders

Edit:  Not posting to be critical.  The statement actualy aligns with what I initially thought, that the R and LJ's positions are not idea for determining how far away the ball was when he hit the whistle.  Everyone and their brother could tell it was IW/erroneous, but as well all know, we all have a very different perspective on the field.  They would have had just a fraction of a second to hear the whistle, process it, realize ball was in flight, then mentally try to rewind their brain to see where it was at.  I can tell you, had that been me, I'd have gone with the call they made, and stuck by it.  It sucks, and is what it is, but I don't fault them for the path they chose.

[HLinNC]

I foresee some "retirements" after this one.

[Kalle]

You are aware that the TV sound is typically out of synch with the picture by a noticeable amount of time?

[HLinNC]

 The NFL office has already acknowledged that there was a whistle but the crew reported that it was after the catch.  That has nothing to do with any subsequent recriminations that may or may not occur.

[RMR]

Did anyone see the B and F join the conversation? I only saw the L and R talk.

[dammitbobby]

You are aware that the TV sound is typically out of synch with the picture by a noticeable amount of time?

Not on mine?  When the referee gives an announcement, it's perfectly synced.

[Kalle]

Not on mine?  When the referee gives an announcement, it's perfectly synced.

That's miked directly, but most of the ambient sounds are miked from a relatively long distance.

[bama_stripes]

You are aware that the TV sound is typically out of synch with the picture by a noticeable amount of time?

I’m aware that the video clearly shows the LJ with his whistle already in his mouth as the QB approaches the sideline.

[Kalle]

I’m aware that the video clearly shows the LJ with his whistle already in his mouth as the QB approaches the sideline.

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not saying that the video is wrong, just that it might be, and I would not draw any strong conclusions based solely on that.

And now that I really think about this, I think the timing should go to the opposite, ie. as sound travels slower than light, the sound might be too late on the video compared to the actual time, not too early.

[ElvisLives]

This is precisely why I advocate holding the whistle in the hand until you are 100% positive that the ball is dead. You might ‘think’ it is dead, but in the milliseconds it takes to move the whistle to the mouth, you might realize that you aren’t 100% certain, and you let the down play itself out. Especially if you have Replay. The RO could have fixed this, if the passer had actually been OB before he released the pass. But, I don’t believe he can fix an IW.
I have never seen or heard anything that says who actually sounded their whistle - the LJ or the R. It had to have been one of those two, with the highest likelihood of it being the LJ. If the sounding of the whistle actually came after the receiver completed the catch, that would be nearly miraculous, but not impossible.

[RMR]

On the replay you can see the LJ putting the whistle in his mouth.

[ElvisLives]

Eh, I have it on good authority that the whistle wasn't by the LJ.

Think about this, though. If the whistle was ever-so early (related to the catch), what impact did it have on the overall down? Answer: Absolutely none. Even if we discount the possibility of the TV audio being slightly out of sync with the TV video, the ball was well on its way to the receiver, before the sound is heard on the TV broadcast. On the broadcast, the catch is made milliseconds after the sound is heard. Absolutely no players reacted to the whistle in time to have affected the outcome of the down. So, IW or not, staying with the TD was, in the minds of smarter people than me, the right thing to do.
Although not necessarily approved for/by replay, this is really no different than an IW after a Team B player recovers a fumble in the immediate continuing action. Allow the action up to the point of possession. In this case, that would result in a TD. 

[riffraft]

Eh, I have it on good authority that the whistle wasn't by the LJ.

Think about this, though. If the whistle was ever-so early (related to the catch), what impact did it have on the overall down? Answer: Absolutely none. Even if we discount the possibility of the TV audio being slightly out of sync with the TV video, the ball was well on its way to the receiver, before the sound is heard on the TV broadcast. On the broadcast, the catch is made milliseconds after the sound is heard. Absolutely no players reacted to the whistle in time to have affected the outcome of the down. So, IW or not, staying with the TD was, in the minds of smarter people than me, the right thing to do.
Although not necessarily approved for/by replay, this is really no different than an IW after a Team B player recovers a fumble in the immediate continuing action. Allow the action up to the point of possession. In this case, that would result in a TD.

Personally it doesn't matter if it affected the play or not.  The whistle was clearing early and there is only one thing to do about an IW, man-up and accept the consequences.  Sorry but it is completely wrong for an official to screw up with an IW and just act like it didn't happen because they "think" it didn't affect the play. When I first started officiating a long time ago, I was told by my instructor there is only one thing worse than an IW and that was to not admit to the IW and accept the consequences.

[Grant - AR]

Eh, I have it on good authority that the whistle wasn't by the LJ.

I've heard the same thing.

Personally it doesn't matter if it affected the play or not.  The whistle was clearing early and there is only one thing to do about an IW, man-up and accept the consequences.  Sorry but it is completely wrong for an official to screw up with an IW and just act like it didn't happen because they "think" it didn't affect the play. When I first started officiating a long time ago, I was told by my instructor there is only one thing worse than an IW and that was to not admit to the IW and accept the consequences.

Based on the information put out by Walt Anderson, the official who blew the whistle admitted it, but they thought the whistle was after the ball was caught. 

I think the times are changing in front of our eyes.  I was involved in a play several years ago where an official threw his flag and blew his whistle just as the ball was snapped for a field goal (he should have done neither).  We treated it as the rule book says, didn't allow the successful field goal to count, and replayed the down.  Chaos erupted on the next play as the attempt was blocked and the defense returned the blocked field goal for a touchdown.  My supervisor at the time said we should have ignored that whistle, given the offense the 3 points they deserved, and gone to the dressing room for the half.  I told him I understood what he was saying, but I couldn't back that up in the rule book.  He said no one heard the whistle and stopped playing so we should have acted like it didn't happen.   

I said all that to say, it seems the philosophy is leaning more towards using football common sense and doing what's right instead of what's "by the book" sometimes.  As Elvis said above, no matter whether or not that whistle was blown in the original play, the pass was going to be caught in the end zone by the offensive player...TD.  The whistle didn't change any of the players' behavior so let it stand as it happened on the field.  If a defender obviously stopped because he heard the whistle, we have a whole different scenario.

[RMR]

Eh, I have it on good authority that the whistle wasn't by the LJ.

So, Jerome then? I can't imagine who else it could have been if it weren't one of them.

Considering the play that would actually make more sense, but in the video one can clearly see the LJ putting the whistle in his mouth but I suppose it's possible that he never blew it.

If that's the case, that may make it even worse.

[Covid 22]

My money is on the umpire.  They should never have a whistle.   Replace it with a Snickers before the game. 

The decision made by the R in the game is what I would have done in 99% of those situations.  But in a game with many millions of dollars possibly riding on the call, I think I would have played dumb and gone to the replay booth.   They would have said, this is not reviewable.  Then I would announce the call on the field stands.   

Watching the R, it was pretty clear to me, that he knew it was a no win situation.  These types of calls usually go 50-50.   One team loves you and the other hates you.  In this case the other two teams also hated the call (the NFL and the NFL officials group). 

Question:  Would it have been any better to have ruled it a IW and then found out it was not?  I don't think so.   The R made the right decision no matter what anybody says.

[Ralph Damren]

We've had a lively discussion on the NFHS site entitled :" IW or not what's your thought". Would enjoy your opinions on the situations, if you haven't.... (7-man crew)

[KWH]

You are aware that the TV sound is typically out of synch with the picture by a noticeable amount of time?

If that was true Kalle, then you would have to agree the Referee announcement's would be all out of sync.
Unfortunately they were not!

[Kalle]

If that was true Kalle, then you would have to agree the Referee announcement's would be all out of sync.
Unfortunately they were not!

To quote my previous post "The referee is miked directly, but most of the ambient sounds are miked from a relatively long distance."

But as I said, I got the time difference backwards, as the sound should arrive later, not earlier.