Author Topic: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1  (Read 546 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« on: May 05, 2025, 10:06:28 AM »
Not surprisingly, the first Shaw-Blandino quiz has several questions related to the new Injury Time-Out rule. I have not been privy to any high-level seminars or clinics to get a detailed explanation of the rule, and there are two distinct issues that need to be addressed.

The language we have seen for the rule change only makes reference to the ball being "spotted," (although we don't have a definition of what "spotted" means, which, IMHO, we now need). I have no problem with that. And, if that is the strict intent of the rule, then the answers to Q1 and Q3 should be the same. By the language, the ball being, technically, ready for play, or not (for which there IS a definition) would be irrelevant.
I have asked a few sources if they can confirm this 'intent,' but, although they agree with my assessment, neither have they been in any sort of seminar or clinic to verify. The two different quiz questions - one referring to the ball being ready for play, and the other before the ball is ready for play (but 'spotted,' in both cases) makes me wonder if there is supposed to be a difference. Personally, I don't think so. But, very confusingly, Q3 doesn't not specify if Team B has a time out available (as they do specify for Q1 and Q2). There is a big difference if Team B has no time out available. Since the ball was ready-for-play, the line-to-gain has already been established, so then this becomes a dead-ball foul (DOG) in the new series, and yields 1/5, B-20. And, unless they issue further rule or editorial changes, the play clock would be set to 25-seconds (instead of 40), due to the penalty completion, and would start on the referee's signal. While Team B loses 5-yard with the DOG penalty, they gain 15-seconds on the play clock. Yeah, the R can invoke 3-4-3 and order the play clock to be set to 40, but it would be far better to fix the rule proactively (for consistency), rather than leave it to the discretion of the Referee. (And it probably should be fixed to be 25 or 40, at the option of the offended team).

Anybody out there have authoritative info on this rule change?



Offline TxJim

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2025, 11:05:36 AM »
So, 2-2-4 isn't enough of a definition and what about the new apparent meaning if intended of 3-4-2-b-8 "Action clearly designed to delay the officials from making the ball ready for play"?
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2025, 10:47:48 PM »
Well, the answers to Quiz 1 were provided today, and they confirm that the ball being ready-for-play is irrelevant for the new injury time-out rule. If the ball is spotted before the player ‘presents’ as injured, then the game and play clocks are interrupted, and either a T/O is charged to the team with the injury, if they have one available, or they get hit with a DOG foul if they don’t have a T/O available. Still doesn’t address the question of 25-seconds or 40-seconds on the play clock after a DOG penalty. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that they fix that before the season starts.


Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2025, 06:07:49 PM »
Below are my answers. I believe my answers align with the official answers from S-B, but the play clock status is still ambiguous in Q2.


1. 2/10 @ A-45. Midway through the 4th quarter, back A21 catches a swing pass at the A-42 and runs down to the B-25 and is tackled. After the ball is spotted but not yet ready for play, B55 is moving back to the line of scrimmage, looks to the sideline and then goes down injured at the B-30. Both teams have all timeouts remaining.
RULING:
A, 1/10, B-25, snap (25).
B55 ‘presented’ as injured after the ball was spotted. Per 2025 rule change, the game clock (and play clock) are interrupted for the injury, and Team B is charged with a team time-out. The time-out is administered per rule, i.e., the play clock is set to 25-seconds, and will start on the referee’s signal, and the game clock will start on the snap.
Note that the 2025 rule change only requires that the ball be ‘spotted’ for this rule to apply. It makes no reference to the ball being ready-for-play.
B55 may not participate in the next down.
 
2. 2/10 @ A-45. Midway through the 4th quarter, back A21 catches a swing pass at the A-42 and runs down to the B-25 and is tackled. After the ball is spotted but not yet ready for play, B55 is moving back to the line of scrimmage, looks to the sideline and then goes down injured at the B-30. Team B is out of timeouts.
RULING:
A, 1/10, B-20, ready (25).
B55 ‘presented’ as injured after the ball was spotted. Per 2025 rule change, the game clock (and play clock) are interrupted for the injury. Since Team B has no team time-out available, they have committed a foul for delay-of-game. Since the ball was not yet ready-for-play, Team A’s new series is established after the penalty is enforced from the dead-ball spot.
The play clock is ambiguous. By current rule, the play clock would be set to 25-seconds, and both clocks would be started on the Referee’s signal. However, that allows Team B to reduce the “ready” period to 25-seconds, instead of 40-seconds. The Referee could invoke rule 3-4-3, and order the play clock to be set to 40-seconds. (I would hope that the NCAA would issue a bulletin to have the play clock set to 40-seconds, at the option of the offended team, so that all NCAA officials will be consistent in administration of this new rule.)

3. 2/10 @ A-45. Midway through the 4th quarter, back A21 catches a swing pass at the A-42 and runs down to the B-25 and is tackled. After the ball is spotted, B55 crosses back to his side of the line of scrimmage, looks to the sideline and then goes down injured at the B-20 after the ball was ready for play.
RULING:
A, 1/10, B-25, snap (25).
B55 ‘presented’ as injured after the ball was spotted. Per 2025 rule change, the game clock (and play clock) are interrupted for the injury, and Team B is charged with a team time-out. The time-out is administered per rule, i.e., the play clock is set to 25-seconds, and will start on the referee’s signal, and the game clock will start on the snap.
Note that the 2025 rule change only requires that the ball be ‘spotted’ for this rule to apply. It makes no reference to the ball being ready-for-play.
B55 may not participate in the next down.
OR
A, 1/5, B-20, ready (25).
B55 ‘presented’ as injured after the ball was spotted. Per 2025 rule change, the game clock (and play clock) are interrupted for the injury. In the event that Team B does not have a time out available, Team B commits a Delay of Game foul, and is penalized 5-yards from the succeeding spot. Since the ball was, officially, ready-for-play, and the line-to-gain had been established, the penalty will yield 1/5. Because of the penalty completion, the play cock is set to 25-seconds, and both clocks will start on the referee's signal.
B55 may not participate in the next down.
Just as with Q2, the play clock is ambiguous. By current rule, the play clock would be set to 25-seconds, and the play clock would be started on the Referee’s signal. However, that allows Team B to reduce the “ready” period to 25-seconds, instead of 40-seconds. The Referee could invoke rule 3-4-3, and order the play clock to be set to 40-seconds. (I would hope that the NCAA would issue a bulletin to have the play clock set to 40-seconds, at the option of the offended team, so that all NCAA officials will be consistent in administration of this new rule.)

4. Try @ B-3. First possession series of the 4th extra period. After calling a team timeout during the 3rd extra period, Team A substitutes late in the play clock, and the Team A head coach calls timeout just before the play clock goes to zero.
RULING:
A, Try, B-8, no game clock (25).
Game officials shall ignore the request for a time-out by the Team A head coach. Team A then commits a delay-of-game foul when the play clock expires.

5. Free Kick @ A-35. While the kick is in the air, B21 gives a “T signal” thinking he will not return the kick. The ball is caught by B21 at the B-5 and the officials blow the play dead.
RULING:
B, 1/10, B-25, snap (40 and running).
By 2025 rule change, B21’s “T” signal will cause the ball to become dead. Upon completion of the catch, game officials are to sound their whistles and stop all action. Since Team B caught the ball behind their 25-yard line, Team B will be awarded a scrimmage series at the B-25. (Unless Team B attempts to advance the ball after the catch, there is no foul in the given conditions.)

6. 4/10 @ A-45. Team A sends in their punt team, and has no players numbered 50 – 79. They initially line up in a scrimmage kick formation, but before the snap, back A44 shifts to a position five yards behind the snapper in the clear path from the snapper to the potential kicker. The ball is snapped to A44 who throws a legal forward pass to end A88 who catches the ball at the B-45 and runs out of bounds at the B-40.
RULING:
A, 4/15, A-40, snap (25).
Team A commits a foul for an illegal formation when the ball is snapped from the given formation, because they do not have at least five linemen number 50-79. By 2025 rule change, when A44 moved to a position on a direct line between the snapper and the potential kicker, Team A was no longer in a scrimmage kick formation (as defined). As such, Team A must have at least five linemen numbered 50-79.

7. 1/10 @ B-25. Team A is down by 4 points and snaps the ball with 12 seconds remaining on the game clock in the 4th quarter. QB A12 can find no receiver open, scrambles outside the tackle box and throws the ball away beyond the neutral zone and the play ends with 6 seconds remaining. The defense participated with 12 players on the field.
RULING:
A, 1/5, B-20, 0:12 (4), snap (25).
A12 has legally grounded the ball to end the down.
By 2025 rule change (from a 2024 in-season Sec-Ed interpretation), when Team B commits a an illegal substitution foul for too many players on the field (with all twelve players participating and influencing the action during the down), if Team A accepts the penalty, Team A also has the option to restore the game clock to the time at snap for the previous down. 

8. 1/10 @ B-25. Team A is down by 4 points and snaps the ball with 12 seconds remaining on the game clock in the 4th quarter. QB A12 can find no receiver open, scrambles outside the tackle box and throws the ball away beyond the neutral zone and the play ends with 6 seconds remaining. The defense had 12 players on the field at the snap but B21 was hustling to get off the field and the ball was snapped just before B21 exited the field.
RULING:
A, 1/5, B-20, 0:06 (4), snap (25).
A12 has legally grounded the ball to end the down.
Team B has committed an illegal substitution foul for too many players on the field. Team A will accept the 5-yard penalty at the previous spot, and the down will be repeated. Because B21 did not participate and influence the action during the down, there is no adjustment to the game clock.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2025, 11:02:47 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline Rob S

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2025, 11:16:27 PM »
I was at a camp about a month ago where Shaw talked to us about the new rules. He emphasized he wanted us to use good judgment. If a player is obviously injured right after the play, no TO (the easy one). Even if a player is shaky and we're debating to shut down or not and the ball gets spotted while we're deciding (say it was a one yard run up the middle so we spot in 5 seconds but there's a player limping a bit downfield, then goes down after a few seconds), still no TO (although the rule says we should). We can use the fact we saw signs of possible injury before the ball is spotted as our "out" even though we hadn't officially shut it down yet. They really want to get the "sniper" injuries out of the game where a player randomly goes down after the team has a bit of time to think and make the decision, and the ball being placed on the ground was the most "black and white" thing they could use for the rule.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2025, 11:25:16 PM »
I was at a camp about a month ago where Shaw talked to us about the new rules. He emphasized he wanted us to use good judgment. If a player is obviously injured right after the play, no TO (the easy one). Even if a player is shaky and we're debating to shut down or not and the ball gets spotted while we're deciding (say it was a one yard run up the middle so we spot in 5 seconds but there's a player limping a bit downfield, then goes down after a few seconds), still no TO (although the rule says we should). We can use the fact we saw signs of possible injury before the ball is spotted as our "out" even though we hadn't officially shut it down yet. They really want to get the "sniper" injuries out of the game where a player randomly goes down after the team has a bit of time to think and make the decision, and the ball being placed on the ground was the most "black and white" thing they could use for the rule.

No argument, whatsoever. I suspect the threat of this new procedure will make these fake 'late' injuries disappear. We'll still see somebody writhing in pain as soon as the whistles sound, though. Nothing to be done about those.

Offline bossman72

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2025, 08:25:17 AM »
(although we don't have a definition of what "spotted" means, which, IMHO, we now need).

Would it mean anything other than when the ball is on the ground?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2025 SB Pre-Season Quiz 1
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2025, 10:10:06 AM »
Would it mean anything other than when the ball is on the ground?

If I were writing the definition, I’d say, “The ball is spotted when it is placed on the ground and released by a game official at the succeeding spot.”
Several variables there. “On the ground.” “Released.” “Game official.” “Succeeding spot.” Gotta be on the ground. Gotta be released. Gotta be placed by a game official (not a ball person, player, or anybody else). Gotta be at the succeeding spot (which means the correct yard line and location between the hash marks.)
See. As always, it takes a lot of words to describe even simple concepts. A necessary evil.