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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: FLAHL on June 27, 2013, 08:25:26 AM
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I'm new to the forum and have a question about 2nd half mechanics. The top of page 14 of the 2012/13 Game Officials Manual shows the referee's responsibilities for 2nd half choices, but does not say anything about bringing the captains to midfield. The U's responsibility still includes "On signal from referee, escort captain(s) to center of field."
Do you bring the captains to midfield for 2nd half choices? If not, when do you approach the coach who has the 2nd half option - before they leave the field, or when they come back? Thanks.
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The wing on the 2nd half choice side asks the coach as the first half ends and notifies the R&U.
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As of 2 or so yrs ago, no longer walk captains to the field for 2nd half. (thank goodness. what a waste of time)
A wing will verify with head coach X, - 'you want the ball, right?' As leaving the field in the 1st half is acceptable and preferred.
As walking out for 2nd half, other wing will ask head coach of team Y, - 'what way you kicking?' & subsequently point what direction K will kick to the rest of the crew.
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Thanks Guys, I appreciate it.
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Just remember that the coach with the choice is not required to give you an answer as they leave the field at the end of the first half.
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Welcome to the forum, FLAHL, may you find it both interesting and informational. The second-half choices are no longer determined by a captains' meeting, but by merely asking the head coach (note the shaded area on Pg 14 - indicating a change). Good eyes for spotting the error in not updating the umpire's duties. When the coaches are asked during the halftime are left up to the states. In Maine ,we asked the coaches when they would prefer us to ask. They overwhelmingly said when they return from halftime. We complied - no problems so far.
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At the end of the first half, wing asks coach if he wants to receive. He says yes.
As they come back from a windy halftime before the 3:00 warmup period, he says, "Sorry, we decided we would rather chose to go toward the west end zone instead."
Do you let him change his mind?
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My association asks when we're bringing the teams back.
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AB's question is precisely the reason the coaches asked us to ask them when they return to the field. 3 of us are involved , assuming the visitors won the pregame toss :(1) R will ask home coach, "Do you wish to receive?" - a grunt means yes :); (2) R would relay a "catch" signal to U; (3) U would then ask visiting coach which direction they want to kick; (3) U would then signal BJ the direction to be kicked; (4) We would then assume our positions and wait for the teams to show up. One year down, so far so good.
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For what it's worth, I believe it's worth the 60 seconds, or so, you might lose bringing the Captains to the center of the field to exchange whatever thoughts might be on your mind, or solicit any questions or thoughts that might be on the Captain's minds. It's a matter of mutual respect exchanged with the Captains, ends with exchanging a handshake, which is never a bad idea, and provides an opportunity to reset the tone you expect for the 2nd half.
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Yes, AB, I would let him change his mind but it behooves him to tell me that he has.
Al, that takes more than 60 seconds or so.
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Yes, AB, I would let him change his mind...
Even if the other team has already made their selection?
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For what it's worth, I believe it's worth the 60 seconds, or so, you might lose bringing the Captains to the center of the field to exchange whatever thoughts might be on your mind, or solicit any questions or thoughts that might be on the Captain's minds. It's a matter of mutual respect exchanged with the Captains, ends with exchanging a handshake, which is never a bad idea, and provides an opportunity to reset the tone you expect for the 2nd half.
While I agree with you regarding sportsmanship (and our state still requires the meeting). it's about three minutes from start of march to kickoff.
That means more to some of us than to the younger guys! :!#
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The Manual Committee made the change at the recommendation of several state reps, whose states were currently using the mechanic. NCAA and NFL has used it for years without any reported glitches.Slighting us of our "sportsmanship speech" was discussed but the majority feeling that sportsmanship could still be stressed to the captains if needed, via an official's timeout, during the second half. It shortens the total gametime - no one opposed that!
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Once again, it might be worthwhile to remember; NFHS Rules apply to High School athletes, and in many circumstances players a lot younger at other levels, who are likely a lot less mature than Collegiate or Professional (adult) athletes. It is what it is, however, and we can each decide if the smalll amount of time saved is worth what can be lost by saving that small an amount of time.
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A state could modify their procedure as 'Bama Stripes mentioned and continue with the halftime meeting if they wished. The Officials Manual is only a suggestion, but it would be important that it would be handled the same way throughout your state. When Rule 1-1-5 was tweaked to what it is today, our state decided to send the head coaches out with the captains for the pregame coin toss. The coach would then shake hands with the opposing coach and captains, followed by the white hat asking ; " Coaches, do you agree to play by the NFHS sportsmanship code ? " They would then be excused to return to their sidelines and the discussion with the captains would begin. Seems to work well.
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" Coaches, do you agree to play by the NFHS sportsmanship code ? "
And what coach is EVER going to say no?
4th and 3 at the B40. QB goes into a long count, defense jumps into the NZ.
"Coach, do you want to accept the penalty?"
A question should request information that you don't already know. If it doesn't, it's just a waste of time. Some questions aren't worth asking.
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A question should request information that you don't already know. If it doesn't, it's just a waste of time. Some questions aren't worth asking.
"Coach, are all your players legally equipped?"
I've never heard a coach say "no" yet we ask it every week. I've no idea what we would ever do if one did and stuck to it, go home I guess.
Occasionally one of the wisecrackers will say "I guess" which I assume the NFHS and most ambulance chasers will consider an invalid response.
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P_S Rules 1-1-5 and 1-5-4 require that we ask both - some may ask if the coach understands 1-1-5 but,to me, that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll play by it. You always get : Yes, Yep, or in Maine : AYAH. It's sorta' like the courtroom jargon of :"Do you promise to tell the truth, all the truth..." P_S I'm uncertain what we would do if a coach ever answered in the negative, but I'm sure it will be covered in a case play soon ;)! Maine trivia : What were 300 Mainers doing at 4 PM tommorrow, 150 years ago????...
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"Coach, are all your players legally equipped?"
I've never heard a coach say "no" yet we ask it every week. I've no idea what we would ever do if one did and stuck to it, go home I guess.
Occasionally one of the wisecrackers will say "I guess" which I assume the NFHS and most ambulance chasers will consider an invalid response.
I sometimes get one that answers "As far as I know."
My reply: "Coach, that's a 'yes or yes' question."
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Maine trivia : What were 300 Mainers doing at 4 PM tommorrow, 150 years ago????...
The 20th Maine, led by Joshua Chamberlain, was holding Little Round Top.
I'm a big Civil War geek... yEs:
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tiphat: Excellent, VALJ , in reverence to my forum buddies south of the Mason-Dixon Line, they were the heroes in what many view as the turning point during The War of Northern Aggression. Bangor has a bridge named after Chamberlain and a statue of Hannibal Hamlin (Lincoln's 1st VP). It's better to have a bridge named after you than a statue as a bridge gets you somewhere. I don't believe that Joshua was any relation to Wilt. Enough history for one day FlAg1 :patrioticon:
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I sometimes get one that answers "As far as I know."
My reply: "Coach, that's a 'yes or yes' question."
We each get to decide how we are going to handle a "smart BUTT", so responding to stupid answers from a Head Coach is a decidedly personal option. However, as some may recall, prior to the rule revision REQUIRING a Head Coach to CERTIFY that all (as in each and every one) of his players is legally equipped, it was the responsibility of the game officials to verify players were properly equipped.
When the Head Coach CERTIFIES that his players are properly equipped, he lifts a huge liability off the shoulders of the officiating crew and places it on his back, should any student athlete participate without the required, or legal, equipment and subsequently suffer (or cause) injury because of it.
Of course, if any Referee chooses to accept that unnecessary liability, so as to save the 10-15 seconds to ask and have answered the suggested CERTIFICATION, that seems within his power to do so. You might consider that not all required equipment, nor illegal equipment is readily visible, although the Head Coaches certification covers all that is seen and anything that is unseen.
Believe it, or not, sometimes the Rule Makers actually have the official's interests at heart. Whether we choose to accept the benefit of their concern is our choice.
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Having the Head Coach sign (and date) his name on an index card to verify "all of his players are legally equipped according to National Federation rules" pretty much takes the onus off the crew and puts it on him. where it rightfully belongs.
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Having the Head Coach sign (and date) his name on an index card to verify "all of his players are legally equipped according to National Federation rules" pretty much takes the onus off the crew and puts it on him. where it rightfully belongs.
NCAA started doing this 2 years ago.
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Having the Head Coach sign (and date) his name on an index card to verify "all of his players are legally equipped according to National Federation rules" pretty much takes the onus off the crew and puts it on him. where it rightfully belongs.
Great idea! I might try that this season.
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Having the Head Coach sign (and date) his name on an index card to verify "all of his players are legally equipped according to National Federation rules" pretty much takes the onus off the crew and puts it on him. where it rightfully belongs.
I believe the intent of the recommendation to have the Umpire present, when the certification by the Head Coach that all his players are properly equipped, is for the Umpire to serve as a witness to the certification, should some need arise.
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NCAA started doing this 2 years ago.
My last year on the field in college football was 2009 and we were doing it for at least 5 years prior to that.
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My last year on the field in college football was 2009 and we were doing it for at least 5 years prior to that.
Your conference may have started sooner. NCAA as a whole has done it for 2 years.
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The 2008 NCAA rule book is actually the last time rule 3 refers to bringing the captains together to make the second half choice. Beginning in 2009 the NCAA book simply states that the R will obtain the teams' choices prior to the second half. 2013 will be the fifth year using this mechanic in NCAA.
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In lieu of paper, pen(cil) and the coach's X ; we white hats have our sNiCkErS umpire sNiCkErS as a witness to the coach verifying that big ole' Bubba is properly dressed P_S. With Inderpendance Day close at hand, I'll share with you guys an old Mainer proverb : "If ye drink a fifth on the Fourth , ye may not be able to come forth on the fifth >:D " Wishing all an enjoyable holiday :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon:!