RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: TNofficial on October 12, 2013, 09:24:22 AM
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http://deadspin.com/referees-arrested-in-middle-of-football-game-1444319106?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
I can't wait to hear more about this story and exactly what the officials could have said to elicit this kind of reaction from the police in charge of protecting them.
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Go to Nola.com and read this weird story about 2 refs being arrested during the 3rd Quarter of a varsity game in Covington, La.
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That is really funny. Thanks for sharing.
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Another take on it
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1808209-referees-arrested-during-high-school-football-game-after-sideline-argument
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Sounds like quite a few folks drank from the dumarse bottle that night.
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It now appears that the arresting officer's son plays for one of the team's and the people the officials asked to be moved were the officer's friends.
http://www.sportsnola.com/sports/prep-sports/blogs/two-football-officials-released-from-jail-after-arrests-at-mandeville-st-pauls-game.html
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Incredible.
Should the rest of the crew continued as a 5 man crew (as they did) or walk off in protest ?
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Thanks Ump. When I read the initial story, I figured there was more to it.
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Thanks Ump. When I read the initial story, I figured there was more to it.
In Louisiana? Oh, yeah.
Now I'm wondering how much the hush money will be, and whose pocket it will come out of.
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Just a vent:
There was no reason to move this from the NFHS board. The situation happened at an NFHS event and involved NFHS officials. There would have been much more discussion had iot remained there.
Again, no reason for this to have been moved!
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Incredible.
Should the rest of the crew continued as a 5 man crew (as they did) or walk off in protest ?
If they truly felt there was a safety issue then they should have suspended the game before the fireworks and left then.
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Just a vent:
There was no reason to move this from the NFHS board. The situation happened at an NFHS event and involved NFHS officials. There would have been much more discussion had iot remained there.
Again, no reason for this to have been moved!
Two separate conversations on the same subject on two different boards will always be combined. If it makes you happy I'll move the whole thing to the NFHS board.
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Wow, the more that comes out, the funnier it gets. Its a competition over who has let power go to their heads more.
It our community, an official tired to throw a coach out for 4 games (not under his authority). He ejected him, and then when he wasn't moving fast enough, he yelled, you're out for two games, 3 games, 4 games". Funny thing is the coach being injected is a police officer. Good thing he didn't arrest the official.
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Two separate conversations on the same subject on two different boards will always be combined. If it makes you happy I'll move the whole thing to the NFHS board.
Thank you. Much appreciated. If most posters are like me, they don't visit the General Discussion forum. I only went there, looking for my thread. And actually, I believe my thread and sir55's thread were both moved. :)
I think we'll hear more about this story this week.
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If I'm GNOFOA's assignment secretary I'm telling the home team that until I have their assurance that Lt. Short will never be employed on their security detail again then they can get their officials elsewhere.
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The Assignment Secretary is the Assistant District Attorney for New Orleans apparently.
edit: make that Assistant US Attorney.
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If I'm GNOFOA's assignment secretary I'm telling the home team that until I have their assurance that Lt. Short will never be employed on their security detail again then they can get their officials elsewhere.
Lt Short's son was on the VISITING team, which makes this even more bizarre. DOn't know who was paying him to be there.
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Frequently see visiting teams with their own law enforcement "escorts". Since Short's kid was on the team, he may have even been there on an unpaid basis. One of the things I observed over 30 + years in law enforcement is how many take advantage of the uniform and badge to get into events, get perks, get free food, etc. It would not be that out of the ordinary for that to have happened here also.
http://theadvocate.com/home/7303833-125/arrest-of-two-football-prep (http://theadvocate.com/home/7303833-125/arrest-of-two-football-prep)
Sounds like it may not have been the R's first trip "downtown"
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DOn't know who was paying him to be there.
My guess- he "flashed the tin" and got instant sideline access. Sounds as if he brought his friends along.
We do have some teams that bring their SRO with them but they normally go hang out with the officers from the home team. I've never had a problem with an officer. Of course, it isn't wise to approach them in a bossy manner. The first official asked him to help out and was surprised when the officer didn't cooperate as most would do. It went downhill fast after that.
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Lt Short's son was on the VISITING team, which makes this even more bizarre. DOn't know who was paying him to be there.
While that is apparently the case, the Lt. works for the agency that provides security for the home team. Mandeville and Covington share a border.
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If I'm GNOFOA's assignment secretary I'm telling the home team that until I have their assurance that Lt. Short will never be employed on their security detail again then they can get their officials elsewhere.
If they use Arbiter for their scheduling, I would have the whole assn. block the teams for next year.
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I learned this evening that the two officials were jailed in a cell without cots and had to sleep on the concrete floor.
There's no defense for that type of treatment.
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For anyone that's interested in writing the mayor of Covington, his name is Mike Cooper. You can write him at concerns@covla.com. I've already written.
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Not sure what happened here but it appears that there were bad attitudes all around. I work around law enforcement all the time. I see people get arrested for failing the attitude test. I am not trying to justify what the cops did in this case but It is not a good idea to try to tell a cop how to do his job. Ultimately he has a greater ability to cause you grief than you as an official ever will. I have seen videos of firefighters getting arrested trying to tell a cop how to do his job. If the spectators are in the restricted area and the game administration won't help control the situation, then the officials need to refuse to officiate. In the short term, you will always lose a POURING match with a cop.
Again, I am not trying to justify the cops or the officials actions. There had to be a way to handle this without an escalation of the event to an arrest.
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I learned this evening that the two officials were jailed in a cell without cots and had to sleep on the concrete floor.
There's no defense for that type of treatment.
Sure there is. Why should they be treated any differently than anyone else arrested? Most jails have an area where people are held temporarily pending an initial appearance with a magistrate/JP/etc. They are not designed to be permanent housing facilities so do not have beds. What happens if you have 10 -15 arrestees pending the initial appearance and the cell has only 4 - 5 beds? Use your imagination.
But look on the bright side...it is just more fuel for their lawsuit and should be worth a few more dollars for the "cruel and unusual " punishment they suffered.
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The ref's association is weighing in. Newsflash to them...based on the comments I have seen on this and other officiating forums from experienced officials around the nation, hard to say they did nothing wrong.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/10/referees_did_nothing_wrong_say.html
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Here's the official statement from the GNOFOA
http://www.wwltv.com/news/Football-association-supports-refs-arrested-in-Northshore-game-227758651.html (http://www.wwltv.com/news/Football-association-supports-refs-arrested-in-Northshore-game-227758651.html)
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Does anybody have video from the game that is available?
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...If the spectators are in the restricted area and the game administration won't help control the situation, then the officials need to refuse to officiate...
I'm being told from what I consider a reliable source close to the LHSAA the officials asked (rather than demand) the cop for help and were told to worry about the game instead of the sidelines. It was at that point they said the game would not continue until game management took care of the problem. That's when the cop decided to throw his weight around after which the situation quickly deteriorated.
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Even the statement from the official's association indicated the official tried to order the officer out of the stadium. Bad move Exlax
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Even the statement from the official's association indicated the official tried to order the officer out of the stadium.
I believe that should be taken in the context with which it was written. The statement actually occurred after the cop decided to act like Barney Fife and probably should not have been made. But at that point those who are not going to assist in solving the problem are a part of the problem in and of itself.
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No different than when the coach starts acting the fool. We can't go off half -cocked and assume an authority we do not possess. There is no way a high school football official can order a uniformed law enforcement officer ON THE JOB to leave, no matter how crappy a job he may be doing or how much of an arse he may be making of himself
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Even the statement from the official's association indicated the official tried to order the officer out of the stadium.
I think you're reading into the comment. Radcliffe was still trying to get the unauthorized spectators back and off the field of play. When he included the officer in the group he was still just trying to get them all off the field of play and out of the way.
I don't read anywhere in the statement that indicates the officials were trying to throw anyone out of the stadium, spectator or LEO.
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From their own official statement: "Radcliffe then told the officer that he needed to leave as well, and that he would go talk with home management. As Radcliffe was beginning to do that, the officer called him back and placed him under arrest."
http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/Football-association-supports-refs-arrested-in-Northshore-game-227758651.html (http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/Football-association-supports-refs-arrested-in-Northshore-game-227758651.html)
I am not reading too much into it.
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Just because he is a uniformed officer, he does not have license to be in the restricted area anymore than a HC . It seems the referee was walking away to get home game management to take care of the problem the police officer would not (mainly because it was his friends and relatives that were down there). The R did not make it back over to the AD or Game Manager because the officer placed him and LJ under arrest.
Sounds like to me words were probably exchanged, no resolution was taking place and the R, correctly, was going to get game management to handle it. No Ex-lax needed here. I would have done the same thing as these guys did. P_S
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He was uniformed and ON DUTY. He can certainly be outside he sidelines. If he is in that restricted area IMMEDIATELY off the sideline then you might ask him to step out of that THAT area for both his and your safety. But other than that, he can be wherever.
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So if a LEO takes up residence in the middle of the field, no official should approach him or say anything to indicate that he should move so that the game can continue? And if they do say something to the effect of "We need you to move" or "Please stand behind this line so we can play the game" they should be arrested? LA Rev St 14:122 defines public intimidation as the use of violence, force or threats. There's no indication that the officials engaged in violence or attempted to use force from what I've read. As a peace officer, would you say the threat of contacting game management rise to the level of an arrestable offense?
I have no doubt the officials probably said something stupid or in some other way attempted to exceed their authority and lost the genitalia-sizing contest to the man with the gun. I'm having a much harder time believing they actually offended against the peace and dignity of the State in a manner to warrant the restriction of their liberty and criminal charges resulting from the arrest.
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http://www.naso.org/go/pressreleases/013_GNOFOA_email.html
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The ref's association is weighing in. Newsflash to them...based on the comments I have seen on this and other officiating forums from experienced officials around the nation, hard to say they did nothing wrong.
It's equally as hard to say they did anything to be arrested, either.
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Gentlemen, I am only going to say this once.... keep this discussion clean; keep this discussion civil. Those who persist in making their point by attempting to bypass the banned word censor, or with acronyms that don't belong here - should prepare themselves for a charged time out.
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Sure there is. Why should they be treated any differently than anyone else arrested? Most jails have an area where people are held temporarily pending an initial appearance with a magistrate/JP/etc. They are not designed to be permanent housing facilities so do not have beds. What happens if you have 10 -15 arrestees pending the initial appearance and the cell has only 4 - 5 beds? Use your imagination.
Whether it's the norm or not doesn't make it right. Based on everything else we've heard about the actions of the Covington Police Dept., I doubt very seriously that it wasn't intentional. It's a crap.
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From their own official statement: "Radcliffe then told the officer that he needed to leave as well, and that he would go talk with home management. As Radcliffe was beginning to do that, the officer called him back and placed him under arrest."
I am not reading too much into it.
Edit: After reading AB's comment and the article he mentioned, this post seemed silly.
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He was uniformed and ON DUTY. He can certainly be outside he sidelines. If he is in that restricted area IMMEDIATELY off the sideline then you might ask him to step out of that THAT area for both his and your safety. But other than that, he can be wherever.
Actually, he was not on duty, he was part of the paid security detail. It's not exactly the same thing.
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Nowhere in that sentence, or the article for that matter, does anyone imply that Radcliffe told the "LEO" that he needed to leave the stadium.
From a witnes statement in the original article:
"The second referee told the police officer, nose-to-nose with the police officer, 'you're out of the game...get outta here.' "
Sounds like an "ejection" to me.
I think there was plenty of blame on both sides here. I think what started as a reasonable request turned into a testosterone explosion on both sides, and ultimately, the guy with the badge has the last word that evening.
I'll bet the entire case gets dropped.
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From a witnes statement in the original article:
"The second referee told the police officer, nose-to-nose with the police officer, 'you're out of the game...get outta here.' "
Sounds like an "ejection" to me.
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't read EVERY article on the subject. If that's the case, I was a poor move on the officials part.
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From a witnes statement in the original article:
"The second referee told the police officer, nose-to-nose with the police officer, 'you're out of the game...get outta here.' "
I haven't seen that alleged statement in any subsequent writing, making me wonder about the credibility of the witness and the accuracy of the quote.
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I haven't seen that alleged statement in any subsequent writing, making me wonder about the credibility of the witness and the accuracy of the quote.
Is going nose-to-nose a physical confrontation? I ask because the Covington mayor has indicated that their was no physical confrontation:
"Cooper wouldn't go into specific details of his conversations with West and Short about the incident, but said both admitted there was no physical confrontation between the officials and Short. He said Short arrested them "more or less (because of) words and maybe actions. It was a question of authority, and there's probably a gray line there. ... "
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/10/covington_mayor_mike_cooper_on.html
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From the Mayor:
" After talking to both sides during the past few days, Cooper said he has learned 'there are three stories: there's their story, there's police officials' story, and somewhere in there is probably the truth.' "
Personally, I don't think anyone is blameless here. Sounds like egos got involved on both sides, and there was no graceful way for anyone to back down.
In writing that last sentence, I realized I also described our current situation in Washington!
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Cooper said the police investigation is being led by Capt. Jack West, who was on the sideline next to Short when the arrests were made and has been interim police chief.
At least we know the investigation is being taken seriously. ::)
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From a witnes statement in the original article:
"The second referee told the police officer, nose-to-nose with the police officer, 'you're out of the game...get outta here.' "
Sounds like an "ejection" to me.
If I'm not mistaken, the "witness" was the President of Mandeville Booster Club, one of the fans who was invited to the sideline by the officer and one of the fans who was in the restricted area. I tend to take anything he says with several grains of salt.
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I am always kind of amazed on discussion boards that some officials seem not to support other officials. It is true that the officials may not have treated the officer with the utmost respect after they asked the officer to move the crowd back. Just because a police officer is treated with a lack of respect does not justify an arrest. There is still something in this country called the first amendment that allows citizens to express their opinions to public officials (freedom of speech). There is nothing in these actions that justified an arrest period, and certainly those two brother officials did not deserve to spend the night on a concrete floor. For some on this board to somehow say the officers were even remotely correct in this situation is an offense to fellow officials.
There is something called the Blue Line which implies that police officers will always stick together in these situations (often even when they are wrong). As officials we should follow their lead and have a solid Zebra Line. These officials deserve our support. I hope this never happens to me because some police officer perceives a lack of respect on my part.
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I am always kind of amazed on discussion boards that some officials seem not to support other officials.
True but it's not just on discussion boards, there are plenty willing to throw others under the bus in real life.
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Agreed
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Well said John :thumbup
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What surprises me is the number of people who have an opinion without having seen the play - well in this case heard the reports or testimony.
I disagree that we should stick up for the officials involved NO MATTER WHAT. I don't like the way they were treated - but we don't REALLY know what was said. MAYBE he did say something threatening or poked him in the chest or something. I don't know, and I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other.
It is a shame that an incident boiled up to something like that, and you would think that the official would have learned to have thick skin over time. You would also like to think that officers of the law would not over react or pull rank just because they can.
Sometimes the best thing to do (learning from having 2 young children here) is to take a deep breath and then just take another one.
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James,
I agree. From the reports, it is not even clear to me if someone was in the restricted area. The reports mention the area of the track. In downstate Illinois, I would be happy to have the fans back as far as the track, most of our small schools have a fence or cable inside of the track.
If our focus is on the fans behind us, then we are not paying attention to the work in front of us. Trouble can find us, we don't have to go looking for it.
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It's not the fact that "we need to stick together". It's the fact that many of us are realists and realize that it takes some ego to do what we do and it takes some ego to be a cop. Add two testosterone fueled, authoritative Type A's together and it can blow up quickly, much as this situation appears to have done. Both sides will eventually come to a realization that some aspects could have been handled much better than they were.
I do find the police officer's response to the situation agregious and improper. I find the fact that the "investigator" is a witness to the event a travesty. As a Captain and the superior officer present, he could have diffused the whole thing but he was "sticking together" too. That attitude doesn't always make it right.
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From the reports, it is not even clear to me if someone was in the restricted area. The reports mention the area of the track.
Regardless of where the fans were, if the wing official felt he needed that space to do his job, he was well within his rights to ask that the area be vacated. We have had that problem with photogs, stat people, etc from time to time.
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I am always kind of amazed on discussion boards that some officials seem not to support other officials. It is true that the officials may not have treated the officer with the utmost respect after they asked the officer to move the crowd back. Just because a police officer is treated with a lack of respect does not justify an arrest. There is still something in this country called the first amendment that allows citizens to express their opinions to public officials (freedom of speech). There is nothing in these actions that justified an arrest period, and certainly those two brother officials did not deserve to spend the night on a concrete floor. For some on this board to somehow say the officers were even remotely correct in this situation is an offense to fellow officials.
There is something called the Blue Line which implies that police officers will always stick together in these situations (often even when they are wrong). As officials we should follow their lead and have a solid Zebra Line. These officials deserve our support. I hope this never happens to me because some police officer perceives a lack of respect on my part.
1. There should be nothing like the "Zebra Line", just like there should be nothing like the "blue Line", ESPECIALLY on a board like this. This is a discussion board about officiating. That means dissecting what happened, and sometimes critiquing that, even criticizing, if it helps to improve the profession.
2. "Just because a police officer is treated with a lack of respect does not justify an arrest." That in itself is absolutely true. But there is also NO reason for the official to have ever treated the officer (or a coach, or a player or an administrator) with a lack of respect. If you want to be respected, the best way to do it is to respect others.
3. The First Amendment right to freedom of speech is not absolute, even against a government official. You do not have the right to say anything you want to a government official. Threaten to shoot the President and see what happens.
4. Was there something here that justified an arrest? I seriously doubt it. But I don't KNOW, there might have been. IF (and it's a major IF) some of the witness accounts are true, such as "ejecting" a police officer, the the officials overstepped their bounds. If they threatened the officer in any way, they they absolutely deserved to spend the night in a cell, and may have a few others as well.
None of us were there. We are only reading reports that come from different sources, all with thier own biases. Was the officer wrong? My OPINION is yes, he was absolutely wrong, and the Covington Police Chief and Mayor now have a disaster of a PR problem on their hands.
But were the officials also worng? Absolutely. No matter what form of "leave" they told the officer that was giving them a problem, their solution was to call over the game manager, and say, "Here is our problem. Either it gets fixed, or we are going to have to stop play until it is fixed." Obviously, they didn't do that, they took matters into their own hands, to at least some level.
You can call it a POURING contest, or too much ego, or too much testosterone, or whatever you want. NO ONE handled this well.
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If anything is to be learned from this it is to accept, when you arrive at the field, that no one there is neutral. ADs, concession vendors, rent-a / real cops, scribes, even other coaches there to scout, probably have a favorite. Some may even have kids on the teams - "Father Bear" is always going to protect anything he precieves going against "Baby Bear". Every few years we have a meeting entitled : "Ms. Manner's & don'ts for zebras". Some discussion topics are : (1) Don't be afraid to overuse these three words - PLEASE, & THANK YOU. Example - big ole' Bubba's dad & buddies crowding the sideline , "Guys, for the safety of the kids, could you PLEASE move back behind the ________, THANK YOU." & "Officer Smitty, can you PLEASE help everyone to move safely back behind the______ , THANK YOU." (2) Don't discuss players or teams within earshot of anyone - Father Bear may be listening! (3) Don't wear clothes that have either team's school colors to the game - some will think you came from that school, don't give them any ammo! (4) Politely turn down vanity plates from your spouse identifying you as an official - this may be putting a bullseye on you car for a POed fan - a wild necktie is a safer gift! (5) Don't park next to a team bus. Enough for today, time for some lobster chowder....
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If anything is to be learned from this it is to accept, when you arrive at the field, that no one there is neutral. ADs, concession vendors, rent-a / real cops, scribes, even other coaches there to scout, probably have a favorite. Some may even have kids on the teams - "Father Bear" is always going to protect anything he precieves going against "Baby Bear". Every few years we have a meeting entitled : "Ms. Manner's & don'ts for zebras". Some discussion topics are : (1) Don't be afraid to overuse these three words - PLEASE, & THANK YOU. Example - big ole' Bubba's dad & buddies crowding the sideline , "Guys, for the safety of the kids, could you PLEASE move back behind the ________, THANK YOU." & "Officer Smitty, can you PLEASE help everyone to move safely back behind the______ , THANK YOU." (2) Don't discuss players or teams within earshot of anyone - Father Bear may be listening! (3) Don't wear clothes that have either team's school colors to the game - some will think you came from that school, don't give them any ammo! (4) Politely turn down vanity plates from your spouse identifying you as an official - this may be putting a bullseye on you car for a POed fan - a wild necktie is a safer gift! (5) Don't park next to a team bus. Enough for today, time for some lobster chowder....
I'll add to Ralphs list. For #3 I look at the OHSAA website for the school colors, if I do not know them, and I wear other colors. IE red/white vs green/white, I will wear a blue shirt .
Where my parents live at the high school field there are 5 parking spots marked "reserved for football officials", no one ever parks there my dad says!
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Charges Dropped:
Covington mayor: Charges to be dropped against refs ADVOCATE STAFF REPORTS
October 17, 2013
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Comments Charges will be refused against two high school referees arrested at a Covington football game last week, the city’s mayor said Thursday.
At a news conference, Mayor Mike Cooper apologized to the officials, and said he apologies for how the incident between a Covington Police Department officer and the referees was handled. He requested that St. Tammany Parish District Attorney Walter Reed drop the charges and he agreed to do so.
Head referee James Radcliffe and line judge Chris Gambino were arrested for public intimidation during Friday’s football game between Mandeville High School and St. Paul’s.
The Greater New Orleans High School Officials Association stood behind its officials, saying they would refuse to referee the remaining Covington games of the season if Covington police officers provided security.
Early reports indicated that the officials were arrested midway through the third quarter after an exchange of words that began between Gambino and a Covington police officer. The official reportedly wanted fans moved back from the sidelines. Radcliffe intervened and he too was arrested.
They were booked into the Covington jail and held until early the next morning, when they were released on bond.
After Friday’s game, then-interim Covington Police Chief Jack West defended the arresting officer’s actions, saying he acted appropriately based on witness and video accounts. Records show that the officer was Covington police Lt. Stephen Short, whose son plays for Mandeville High School.
A new chief for the Covington Police Department, Tim Lentz, was sworn in this week.
“To me it was a no brainer to do this,” said Lentz, who previously spent decades working for the St. Tammany Sheriff’s office. “We apologize with all our hearts for the events that took place Friday night. It should’ve been handled differently.”
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What's the over/under on the day the lawsuit will be filed?
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What surprises me is the number of people who have an opinion without having seen the play - well in this case heard the reports or testimony.
I disagree that we should stick up for the officials involved NO MATTER WHAT. I don't like the way they were treated - but we don't REALLY know what was said. MAYBE he did say something threatening or poked him in the chest or something. I don't know, and I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other.
It is a shame that an incident boiled up to something like that, and you would think that the official would have learned to have thick skin over time. You would also like to think that officers of the law would not over react or pull rank just because they can.
Sometimes the best thing to do (learning from having 2 young children here) is to take a deep breath and then just take another one.
I am quite comfortable supporting Mr. Radcliffe and Mr. Gambino, as was NASO, the Greater New Orleans Football Officials Association, the Louisiana High School Officials Association and the Louisiana High School Athletic Association.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/10/covington_mayor_mike_cooper_sa.html
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(4) Politely turn down vanity plates from your spouse identifying you as an official - this may be putting a bullseye on you car for a POed fan - a wild necktie is a safer gift!
Where my parents live at the high school field there are 5 parking spots marked "reserved for football officials", no one ever parks there my dad says!
Agreed greatly on both. My wife suggested the vanity plate at one point after a couple of seasons, and I shot it down before she could even finish the sentence...
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But were the officials also worng? Absolutely. No matter what form of "leave" they told the officer that was giving them a problem, their solution was to call over the game manager, and say, "Here is our problem. Either it gets fixed, or we are going to have to stop play until it is fixed." Obviously, they didn't do that, they took matters into their own hands, to at least some level.
Unless I've read the accounts incorrectly, this is exactly what they were trying to do when they were arrested. The officer's purpose in arresting them was to prevent them from going to game management.
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Unless I've read the accounts incorrectly, this is exactly what they were trying to do when they were arrested. The officer's purpose in arresting them was to prevent them from going to game management.
Some accounts of the game say that the officials "ejected" the police officer. IF that's true, and I have no idea if it is or not, then that would be a mishandling of the situation.
Obviously, the result shows that the police officer should shoulder most, if not all of the blame.
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I'll add to Ralphs list. For #3 I look at the OHSAA website for the school colors, if I do not know them, and I wear other colors. IE red/white vs green/white, I will wear a blue shirt .
Tom, would that ever be maize and blue? :sTiR:
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Well, Captain West is back in the news. Brilliant.
(http://imgick.nola.com/home/nola-media/width620/img/crime_impact/photo/13934448-mmmain.jpg)
Covington police captain placed on paid administrative leave after weapon discharges inside station
Covington police Capt. Jack West has been placed on paid administrative leave after a 12-gauge shotgun discharged in his office Wednesday, Chief Tim Lentz said. West was in the process of issuing the weapon to a new recruit when it discharged, Lentz said.
Lentz said issuing weapons is part of West's job. West failed to determine whether the gun was loaded before he issued it on Wednesday, he said.
All new recruits are issued a 12-gauge shotgun and a rifle, Lentz said.
No one was hurt when the weapon discharged, Lentz said, but there is a hole in the ceiling of West's office.
Lentz said the police department is conducting an internal investigation in accordance with civil service guidelines.
West did not return a message seeking comment.
West is a 30-year veteran of the Covington Police Department.
He served as interim chief from April through October, after Covington Mayor Mike Cooper fired former chief Richard Palmisano. He was among the applicants for the chief's position.
West was one of two Covington police officials investigated following the arrests of two referees during a high school football game in October. That investigation is complete, and Lentz said he hopes to hold pre-disciplinary hearings with West and Lt. Stephen Short and their attorneys next week.
Lentz would not say Friday whether the gun incident would have any impact on the hearing in the referee case.
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Covington police Capt. Jack West Barney Fife has been placed on paid administrative leave after a 12-gauge shotgun discharged in his office Wednesday, Chief Tim Lentz said. West Fife was in the process of issuing the weapon to a new recruit when it discharged, Lentz said.
Lentz said issuing weapons is part of West's Fife's job. West Fife failed to determine whether the gun was loaded before he issued it on Wednesday, he said.
All new recruits are issued a 12-gauge shotgun and a rifle, Lentz said.
No one was hurt when the weapon discharged, Lentz said, but there is a hole in the ceiling of West's Fife's office.
Lentz said the police department is conducting an internal investigation in accordance with civil service guidelines.
West Fife did not return a message seeking comment.
West Fife is a 30-year veteran of the Covington Police Department.
He served as interim chief from April through October, after Covington Mayor Mike Cooper fired former chief Richard Palmisano. He was among the applicants for the chief's position.
West Fife was one of two Covington police officials investigated following the arrests of two referees during a high school football game in October. That investigation is complete, and Lentz said he hopes to hold pre-disciplinary hearings with West Fife and Lt. Stephen Short Gomer Pyle and their attorneys next week.
Lentz would not say Friday whether the gun incident would have any impact on the hearing in the referee case.
Fixed it for 'ya, Anj! This is straight out of Mayberry. (Slow day here in the office).
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West is a 30-year veteran of the Covington Police Department.
His chances of making it to 31 are about the same as mine of winning the Mega Millions.
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(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSJ-amvAFEV1J9AW0npcVGRet3f_4AuYySjvNi25aRkXvjNjlJ)
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(http://redtreetimes.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kid-alfred_e_neuman.jpg)
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UPDATE:
Covington police officer suspended, demoted for referee arrests .
Posted on December 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM
Updated today at 1:35 PM
WWLTV.com
Email: webteam@wwltv.com | Twitter: @WWLTV
COVINGTON, La. -- Police Chief Tim Lentz says he has issued a 10-day suspension for Lt. Stephen Short for the arrest of two referees at a high school football game.
Short was demoted to sergeant and can return from suspendion on Jan. 15, Lentz said.
On Oct. 11, Short arrested two referees during a St. Paul's vs. Mandeville game in Covington.
Christopher Gambino, 55, of River Ridge and James Radcliffe, 54, of Metairie, were both charged with one count of public intimidation for their involvement in an argument with Covington Police Officers during the third quarter of the game. The charges were later dropped.
According to a release from Covington Police, Short violated department policy after getting physical during the arrest of the referees. "The night of the incident, Lt. Short failed to seek any alternatives. The referees posed no risk to the officers," said a statement from Covington Police.
Short also "failed to exercise reasonableness, and failed to consider the surrounding circumstances. By arresting two referees, he brought a terrific high school football game to a halt," police said.
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Seems this escalated way beyond what was necessary. The Head Linesman should have fired the chain crew instead of getting into a debate.
I'll joke with cops, but will not tell them how to do their job. The official should have explained how far back everyone needed to be moved. Then let the cop do his job. There are far too many times we depend on those guys to protect us.
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Seems this escalated way beyond what was necessary. The Head Linesman should have fired the chain crew instead of getting into a debate.
I'll joke with cops, but will not tell them how to do their job. The official should have explained how far back everyone needed to be moved. Then let the cop do his job. There are far too many times we depend on those guys to protect us.
WOW!!!
Don't the facts that the charges against the officials were dropped and the cop was suspended, imply that the escalation was initiated and carried out entirely by the officer? I believe that your attempt to place some of the blame for this incident on the officials is, to say the least, unwarranted.
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WOW!!!
Don't the facts that the charges against the officials were dropped and the cop was suspended, imply that the escalation was initiated and carried out entirely by the officer? I believe that your attempt to place some of the blame for this incident on the officials is, to say the least, unwarranted.
No, not at all! Was the MAJORITY of the problem the fault of the officer? Absolutely! But did the officials handle it in the best way they could have? Probably not.
Because of the officer's actions, there is no way any reasonable prosecutor is going to going to move forward against the officials. But that does not in any way mean they were "blameless". I doubt seriously they did anything that merited arrest, but I also think they could have handled the situation better.
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The simplest thing would have been to refuse to resume play until the unauthorized personnel were moved. If this required the game admin to tell the cop to move his buddies so the game continues, the onus is on them.
In a clash of egos, the badge and gun are always going to win in the short term.
While I would never criticize the remaining officials who finished the game, I believe I would reach a conclusion that the same officers arresting my crew mates were going to be responsible for my safety and thus the situation was no longer safe to continue.
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While I would never criticize the remaining officials who finished the game, I believe I would reach a conclusion that the same officers arresting my crew mates were going to be responsible for my safety and thus the situation was no longer safe to continue.
That was part of what shocked me. I assume LA is using 5 man crews. Well, with two officials gone, now they only have three? Sorry, if I'm one of the remaining officials, this game is suspended.
Who knows, if they had taken that stance, MAYBE cooler heads would have prevailed and the arrested officials would have been put back on the field. And how do the remaining officials keep their head in the game knowing what just happened?
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That was part of what shocked me. I assume LA is using 5 man crews. Well, with two officials gone, now they only have three? Sorry, if I'm one of the remaining officials, this game is suspended.
Who knows, if they had taken that stance, MAYBE cooler heads would have prevailed and the arrested officials would have been put back on the field. And how do the remaining officials keep their head in the game knowing what just happened?
They were actually using a 7 man crew for this game and so they finished using 5 man mechanics.
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That was part of what shocked me. I assume LA is using 5 man crews. Well, with two officials gone, now they only have three? Sorry, if I'm one of the remaining officials, this game is suspended.
Who knows, if they had taken that stance, MAYBE cooler heads would have prevailed and the arrested officials would have been put back on the field. And how do the remaining officials keep their head in the game knowing what just happened?
We use a lot of 6 and 7 man crews here.
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I just read where the two officers involved were sort of forced to resign.
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IMHO, using three underused words - please, and thank you - by all parties involved could have pervented all of this. When authority meets authority with the common goal of keeping things under control, things got out of control quite quickly P_S ^flag P_S :!#.