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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: Osric Pureheart on November 09, 2013, 02:14:30 PM

Title: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Osric Pureheart on November 09, 2013, 02:14:30 PM
7:40 in the 4th, Florida throws to the corner of the end zone, the ball gets tipped a few hundred times and then the Florida receiver hauls it in.  L is signalling incomplete while the ball's still in the air, then changes his mind and goes up for a TD.  Replay decides not to touch it with a bargepole.  If someone could clip it there's a whole load of discussion there!

edit: someone's gifed it already: (http://i.imgur.com/U6b2Rwl.gif)
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: golfingref on November 09, 2013, 07:03:21 PM
F was a little quick on his incomplete signal. Definitely caught him off guard.
Title: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: maven on November 09, 2013, 09:01:47 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9953608


maven
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: StudyingFutureZebra on November 09, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
Unbelievable. That gets my vote for "Highlight of the Week."
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Kalle on November 10, 2013, 03:18:01 AM
And technically this looks like an IW...
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: maven on November 10, 2013, 07:50:02 AM
And technically this looks like an IW...

That's what I thought: inadvertent signal killed it.
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Rulesman on November 10, 2013, 08:28:58 AM
...inadvertent signal killed it.
How so ???
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Kalle on November 10, 2013, 09:04:50 AM
How so ???

Because that is the rule. See rule 4-1-2-b. This is the same situation as if an official signals (but does not whistle) a touchdown when the runner crosses the B-5 line.

Basically F ruled and signaled (incorrectly) that the ball became dead when it seemed to hit the ground.
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Joe Stack on November 10, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
Both ARs to the rule you referenced deal with inadvertent whistles. I don't think the intent of "otherwise signals the ball dead" is for situations like this but rather situations like false starts where the official kills the play due to the foul. I don't think you can read this rule literally.
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: maven on November 10, 2013, 11:48:49 AM
Both ARs to the rule you referenced deal with inadvertent whistles. I don't think the intent of "otherwise signals the ball dead" is for situations like this but rather situations like false starts where the official kills the play due to the foul. I don't think you can read this rule literally.

Rules are meant to be read literally. Or are you thinking that "otherwise signals the ball dead" is a metaphor?

Here's a recent thread on the topic: http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9823.msg94934#msg94934 (http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9823.msg94934#msg94934). There are a couple others.

And the accompanying video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwtX3SWAqzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwtX3SWAqzo)
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Kalle on November 10, 2013, 11:51:18 AM
See also NCAA Play Situations Bulletin 3/2010, play #5. http://romgilbert.us/nbul1003.pdf
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Kalle on November 10, 2013, 11:58:45 AM
Interestingly this type of situation results in a very different outcome if you have IR or not. With IR you can have the IRO rule a catch, without IR you have to rule incomplete, no matter what the opinion of the F is.
Title: Re: Florida-Vandy insane catch
Post by: Magician on November 10, 2013, 11:18:04 PM
Rules are meant to be read literally. Or are you thinking that "otherwise signals the ball dead" is a metaphor?

Here's a recent thread on the topic: http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9823.msg94934#msg94934 (http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9823.msg94934#msg94934). There are a couple others.

And the accompanying video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwtX3SWAqzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwtX3SWAqzo)
Not all rules are meant to be read literally (see holding, block in the back).  There is a lot of philosophy and interpretation applied as well.  But in this case you are right.  Anyone who has worked just a couple seasons of college football should be aware of inadvertent signals.  The most common is the TD signal when the runner drops the ball before crossing the goal line.  An umpire raising his hand could be another one.  Any signal that rules the play dead (i.e. incomplete pass, stop block, dead ball) is an inadvertent signal if not before the ball is actually dead.

In this specific example, you could hang your hat on the fact the F never did a complete signal.  But it's awfully close!