RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TexDoc on November 13, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
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Maybe we can get TXMike to post these on the web. The brackets are attached. Lots of holes and missing data, just not enough time to work on them.
I no longer can get Waco and Permail Basin data. Larry Weeks is no longer the secretary in Waco and I don't know anyone (nor do I doubt anyone will talk to me) in Permian.
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Thanks Doc for your usual fine job aWaRd
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Thanks TexDoc! :) aWaRd
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For all of the Houston haters out there....
8 crews got 2 games
6 crews got 3 games
So 14 crews out of 80 are covering 55% of the Houston Chapter assignments.
It has never been this lopsided before.
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For all of the Houston haters out there....
8 crews got 2 games
6 crews got 3 games
So 14 crews out of 80 are covering 55% of the Houston Chapter assignments.
It has never been this lopsided before.
Well clearly they are the only ones that can do the job. :sTiR:
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Is there a rule that a crew cant work more than one game for a school in the playoffs?
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Is there a rule that a crew cant work more than one game for a school in the playoffs?
No, there is not.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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I would think this is somewhat like having 3games on a Thursday night, the last game you might not be as sharp as you need be?
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There should be a rule---I am sure these senior (citizens?) crews are not fresh for their second or even third game in three days. If I were a coach I would never let this happen.
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Week 2 Update Way to go Doc!!
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
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There should be a rule---I am sure these senior (citizens?) crews are not fresh for their second or even third game in three days. If I were a coach I would never let this happen.
I think that it's too easy to get playoffs games in some of those chapters who seem to get more than they can actually cover with tier 1 officials. There's no longer a "prize" and you no longer have to earn it. They get so many games and then the officials have gotten their fill and retire. I think it hurts retention. The chapter I am is is a smaller chapter and we don't get that many games so the few we get are a treasured prize and everyone works hard to be among the select few to get a game. If they don't get one they come back the next year and keep working to get one. Imagine if it was automatic that you'd receive one. It kinda leaves you with not working as hard since you know your already going to get one. Perhaps each chapter should have to submit during the preseason the max amount of games on a Friday night regular season that they can cover with 100% of their chapter. Then for the playoffs that number can be cut down to 25%. So for a small chapter that submits 16 games as their max, then come playoffs they should only be able to get 4 games on a single day.
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You may be on to something Jason. I believe if we take the top 20% of crews in any Chapter and put them in games, you would not be able to tell the difference. Every Chapter in this State has a percentage of guys (probably close to the same percentage) who are the top of the pile. As you point out, when you have 16 crews, that top 20% is 3 or 4 crews. And when you have 80 crews, it is 16 or so. So a Chapter that is digging down into its 50th percentile to put officials on the field is not going to put out as good a product as those who do not need to dip below 20% to fill their slots.
But we will always come back to the same stumbling block...the perception that coaches have unlimited ability to pick the chapters and officials they want. Say what you will about the UIL but as I understand it, in certain sports , once the playoffs get to a certain stage, the schools no longer pick the officials. The UIL does. Sure that might have some issues but it seems it would ultimately be more equitable to the officials (if done properly) and would still guarantee games that are officiated at a high level.
Every crew in this state is capable of making mistakes at the wrong moment in the biggest games. The key is getting those crews who are less likely to make those mistakes.
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You may be on to something Jason. I believe if we take the top 20% of crews in any Chapter and put them in games, you would not be able to tell the difference. Every Chapter in this State has a percentage of guys (probably close to the same percentage) who are the top of the pile. As you point out, when you have 16 crews, that top 20% is 3 or 4 crews. And when you have 80 crews, it is 16 or so. So a Chapter that is digging down into its 50th percentile to put officials on the field is not going to put out as good a product as those who do not need to dip below 20% to fill their slots.
But we will always come back to the same stumbling block...the perception that coaches have unlimited ability to pick the chapters and officials they want. Say what you will about the UIL but as I understand it, in certain sports , once the playoffs get to a certain stage, the schools no longer pick the officials. The UIL does. Sure that might have some issues but it seems it would ultimately be more equitable to the officials (if done properly) and would still guarantee games that are officiated at a high level.
Every crew in this state is capable of making mistakes at the wrong moment in the biggest games. The key is getting those crews who are less likely to make those mistakes.
That is correct regarding the other sports. Baseball submits their top 20 officials and basketball submits their top 16 for boys and top 16 for girls. It may very well be the same 16 for both if the chapter submits it that way.
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I may be biased, but I think you can go down 15 deep in our chapter and get a great product. Quality breeds quality...success and competition create a culture of excellence. It can happen in a small chapter...I see it every day. We have 23 crews but you could go well past the top 10 and still get a crew that could successfully work any game in Texas. My crew successfully worked NJCAA #3 vs #6 this year and we didn't have a HS game above 3A.
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Bracket update:
Fort Worth has the 1A-D2 San Angelo TLC Academy v Hamlin.
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FWIW, there is no way that the Houston chapter is digging down into the 50th percentile for officials, not with the numbers that Coby put up.
The truth is, there are a lot of excellent crews in this chapter that barely sniff a chance at the post season and I am NOT including my crew nor myself in that assessment.
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That is true statewide Welpe. It was not that long ago when I was going to Week 2 and even week 1 games as a fan and not on the field, knowing full well that myself and others could do as well or better than what we were seeing on the field. My time finally came but I have no doubt there are guys watching our games in the stands who could be on the field and the game would be managed just as well , if not better.
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You can put the top crews in based on ranking .
But who chooses the ranking?
What is the criteria ?
Right now it's a guess . Until that gets fixed with a real system and not some opinion based one that uses one arbitrary bias or another it is flawed and not fair. If we are not using a grading system administered by a qualified person it will always be flawed.
So if your chapter has 80 crews and mine has 25 . You should Try to get 80 games and put your top 80 in. We will try to get 25 and put our top 25 in. Notice I didn't give any crew 2 games
. 1 game a week is all any crew needs in my opinion.
I also believe the new rule of only 7 man crews in championship games is bull.
We work all year with 5 . If 5 is good in week 0 it should be good in the final week.
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GreyHat, please tell more about the 7 Man Crews in the Championships. I haven't seen/heard anything about this.
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There is no rule in place in Texas that says the championship games are to be officiated by 7 man crews. If there are 7 officials out there, it is because both schools agreed to that.
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You can put the top crews in based on ranking .
But who chooses the ranking?
What is the criteria ?
Right now it's a guess . Until that gets fixed with a real system and not some opinion based one that uses one arbitrary bias or another it is flawed and not fair. If we are not using a grading system administered by a qualified person it will always be flawed.
So if your chapter has 80 crews and mine has 25 . You should Try to get 80 games and put your top 80 in. We will try to get 25 and put our top 25 in. Notice I didn't give any crew 2 games
. 1 game a week is all any crew needs in my opinion.
I also believe the new rule of only 7 man crews in championship games is bull.
We work all year with 5 . If 5 is good in week 0 it should be good in the final week.
You can create a system via HUDL that does get every crew evaluated and given a "State Grade" for lack of a better term. Yes it will be flawed, but it is better then what we have right now. Do it as a fundraiser. I would pay $100 for a state evaluation and a state ranking (as long as the ranking meant anything). I can design the system I am just not qualified to grade film.
What kills me is my crew worked 3 games in the regular season as a 7 man crew. We have more 7 man high school experience then anyone else in the Houston chapter this season and we have not worked a 7 man playoff game (Or a 5 person game).
It is just another example of the chapter brass talking out of the side of their mouths.... AGAIN
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I didn't realize you haven't gotten a single playoff game yet. All hail the PAT (however it actually works). :bOW
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I didn't realize you haven't gotten a single playoff game yet. All hail the PAT (however it actually works). :bOW
I am only a little bit bitter about the whole situation. Maybe next year I should:
Sell 2 ads in the roster book (only crew to sell an ad and not get a BA game, I thought this might be the missing piece I was wrong).
Referee more then 15 varsity regular season games
Referee more then 3 7 man games
Spend more then 10 hours a week maintaining the chapter HUDL account
Not be the youngest crew in the chapter and coincidentally not get a BA game for the past 4 years.
The secret in Houston/TASO is forget doing what is right and take care of #1 aWaRd
Yearly Rant thanks for reading
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Was a time and chapter once where the secretary saw every member in a game, knew their strong points, knew their weak points. Would put members in games where they were challenged, prodded, worked, and had a chance to step up or wash out.
Step forward and now we have "un official crews". The higher ups work with maybe 8 officials, while telling every one else we all need to work together. The only feed back is from some one trying to climb into the clique. You go on Friday to a game where 2 of the crew are maybe in over their head and when something is said the response is " you can just spread s*** so thin"
And wonder why officials are tired and deciding to do other things.
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Week 3 updated brackets and chapters
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
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Unless the crews are top secret, it looks like AUS does not have the games at Tx State.
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Is that the same as San Marcos Bobcat stadium? If so, the info I have says Austin has 3 games there. Maybe those are chain crews ?
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Yes it looks like support only for all three games.
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Updated bracket
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
Still need info on the Eastland Bangs game in Brownwood next Monday. (Bangs and Denver City finally played their Week 2 game last night)
Also need info on the Leander Rouse - Harlandale game at Texas State Univ Fri night.
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Back in port canaveral FL. Thanks Mike for updating this. It was 85 in Bahamas.
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Get your arse back here!!!! Let me just be the first to say you are terribly UNDERPAID for doing that spreadsheet!!! It was way tooooooo mucho trabajo!!!! (And I only had a fraction of the games you had in Weeks 1 and 2)
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Week 1 is a nightmare, and they added games this year! Stuck in Melbourne airport so will start updating my copy. I don't guess there any games today?
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No but they played one Tues nite which slowed the process down a bit
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Week 4:
TXMike will have to create link. File is too large to attach.
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That is something Doc does not get to say (nor hear) too often..."it's too large"
Updated bracket
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
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Usually when I try on hats! Pumpkin too large
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Thanks TexDoc :)
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[Houston got the San Antonio Brennan v Leander game not College Station
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Updated bracket
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
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I take it the late games in the DFW area are causing havoc for schedules and an updated spreadsheet.
Any how, thanks TexDoc for the work you do.
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I've got them all except for Wellington vs Albany. No idea on that one. I would think South Plains but not sure.
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You are the man TexDoc! We are patiently waiting. :bOW
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South plains is working Wellington-Albany
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All done. Now just waiting for TXMike to get a chance to upload to a web site. The file is too big to attach here.
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http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
Reed and weep peeps!!
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Wow!! None for San Antonio.
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They are saving us for the big time next week. nAnA pHiNzuP aWaRd ;D ^good ^TD
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Houston did not get the Stamford/Hico game.
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Houston did not get the Stamford/Hico game.
I think San Angelo has that one.
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They are saving us for the big time next week. nAnA pHiNzuP aWaRd ;D ^good ^TD
Nope. We have all of them. Thank you all for your services but we'll handle it from here. nAnA
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Nope. We have all of them. Thank you all for your services but we'll handle it from here. nAnA
Jason,
So good of you to pick up the slack for San Antonio.................. LOL
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I noticed one chapter got all of the TAPPS championship games. Does TAPPS rotate chapters?
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They are all played somewhere around Temple, or Waco aren't they? The 11 man games are all Central Texas and the 6 man are all Pecan Valley. Saves them mileage if they don't have to bring anyone in.
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The TAPPS 11-man games were in Corsicana this year. I know Centex usually (always?) got the games when they were in Temple every year.
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Nope. We have all of them. Thank you all for your services but we'll handle it from here. nAnA
Jason - I was referring to the on-field crews , not the chain gangs
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The Tyler Chapter has 2 Championship games. 3A DI and 5A DII.
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Austin has 3A D2. I don't know of any others. San Antonio got none, at least as of this morning.
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Houston has 4A Div. I and 4A Div. II
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Dallas has 1A-1 and 2A-2
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Anyone know who has the other 5A, 2A, and 1A not accounted for?
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Well, Tyler must be doing something right. Fifth straight year they are covering 2 championship games. I'm sure Fort Worth has the other 3 and that means 4 chapters are covering all the games. 4 of the larger chapters. I feel for San Antonio and the smaller chapters.
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I don't think it means they are doing something right as opposed to others not doing so. Every chapter In The state has 1 or more crews that are as qualified and ready for a champ game as are those who got the games.
We have a system that guarantees equal opportunity but equal opportunity does not guarantee equality of outcome. That is life. I doubt anyone (except maybe the talking heads ) would say the crews working are the best there is. I doubt even those crews have that thought. They are the best (hopefully ) that were acceptable to UIL and the schools. Does not mean they are the best. They should be among the best we can offer but under our current system there is no way to guarantee THE best will work.
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Pecan Valley got TAPPS State Championship games for 6 Man. Thank goodness it was held 8 miles away.
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Anyone know who has the other 5A, 2A, and 1A not accounted for?
Abilene has 1A D-1 and 5A D-1.
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Abilene has 1A D-1 and 5A D-1.
Sorry, should be 1A D-2 and 5A D-1
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San Antonio has the 2A1
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Dallas has both 1A and 2A chain gangs, for what it's worth. I believe FTW is covering the rest
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Congratulations to everyone that gets to work this weekend! tiphat:
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Doc's final bracket!! Great job to Herr Docster aWaRd
http://safootballchapter.us/2013TRNY.xls
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Thanks Doc (and mike) for doing these :)
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Seriously what is Tyler doing right? Have you been to their chapter website? It lists all of their state championship games and who officiated. They usually send the same officials. I'm just curious as to how this works.
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Seriously what is Tyler doing right? Have you been to their chapter website? It lists all of their state championship games and who officiated. They usually send the same officials. I'm just curious as to how this works.
The crews are requested by the coaches. Nearly all of the State Championships the chapter has worked are by specific request. We get the occasion "best crew available" but generally the coach knows who he wants.
As someone once said " coaches talk to each other more than school girls on a Thursday night".
Do a good job once and they spread the word around. I am sure if Houston or Dallas or other chapters listed all of theirs it would be a long list also.
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After working the second most playoff games this season FTW got 0 games this week. Seems odd! bad luck of the draw I guess
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Who is going from SA to their game?
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Does anybody know what San Antonio Time Warner channel has the two afternoon games today? Their site calls it FOX Sports Southwest Plus which is a different channel than the one that broadcasts the morning games and I haven't been able to locate it.
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Found it...373 which is a premium channel I dont have. Will have to watch the replay on 26 at midnight.
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No major mishaps yet. Both the first dallas crew (led by Michael Drybred) and the Abilene crew (David Hullum) have done a great job. Fully expect Randy Wilson and his San Antonio boys to represent well. Yoe vs Wall appears to be a match between completely opposite offenses.
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Only thing that I noticed was in the first game, ball carriers helmet came off after he was driven OOB and he stayed in the game.
Second game looked like no flag for Free Kick OOB.
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Saw the same things TSB...
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Only thing that I noticed was in the first game, ball carriers helmet came off after he was driven OOB and he stayed in the game.
Second game looked like no flag for Free Kick OOB.
Yeah, they talked about the helmet at half. Apparently they thought the helmet came off after he was OOB and didn't take him out.
The kick OOB, everyone on the home side thought the same thing, but apparently the L ruled that team B had touched the kick before it went out
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Does not matter if it came off when he was OOB. It was still part of the continuing action
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Dallas crew doing a good job so far in late game.
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Katy - C Hill
Don't get beat to the EZ :!#
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Many Kudos to the H from Abilene that gave a sideline warning!
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Yep we trained in his early yeArs. Would have been nice to have a R in a champ game who knew how to signal the penalty and announce it correctly
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There were a couple of things in the Allen game. In the 3rd there was a completed pass beyond the LOS and a foul for D-Holding. They declined the penalty.? We were on the field with no access to IR so I was wondering about the enforcement.
There was also a foul after an interception in the 2nd half and the kid ran back across the field with the ball and got to his side about the numbers and spiked the ball. About :30 seconds later and some discussion, the U lays a flag on the ground and they proceed to penalize them for a 5yd DOG. I thought is was definitely a USC. Anyone see these on tv? I didn't dvr it.
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I had turned away so was wondering if that was a run or pass. If it was a pass then it makes sense since they made more than 10 yds as I recall
On the interception I think they made the right decision. It was youthful exuberance. Kid did not spike the but definitely delYed the game by his actions.
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Katy - C Hill
Don't get beat to the EZ :!#
Was at the game, B came up anticipating the runner going down. Ball popped out into arms of a player in full sprint. B had no chance to recover.
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From what I have seen this weekend we have many B's who are starting 25 - 30, and backing even further at the snap. That would not be all that bad if they were still getting out to the sidelines on long gains. But we are not doing that either. We do not have 7 man crews yet and some of our B's need to get back to 5man mech basics.
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We noted that a lot Sat. also.
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I think all the crews did a nice job. There's always, of course, room for improvement, though. A couple of things I noticed over the two days I was there: as mentioned, the BJ isn't staying with the play -- he's too concerned about getting beat, and a lot of plays were effectively being worked 4 man; and some sideline control issues, particularly Friday.
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Did anyone notice that the U. & B on the Austin crew lined up on the wrong side on kick offs?
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I did not see that but if they did it I suspect it was for the same reason another crew I am familiar with decided to unilaterally revert to the previous mechanics of the U taking the ball out to the kicker. They did that because they believed it was problematic getting the sideline cleared (and kept cleared) pre-KO when there was only 1 person up near the 50 and he was out there giving the ball to the kicker. In the case of the crew I am familiar with, they contributed to their own problem by not pausing at the 20's for the 45 seconds after the PAT before moving up the sideline to their respective restraining lines. That being said, it might be worth the mechanics committee looking at swapping the U and B so there will be someone on the sideline near each team area while the ball is being given to the kicker. I like that a whole lot more than having most of our U's handling the ball chores.
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I did not see that but if they did it I suspect it was for the same reason another crew I am familiar with decided to unilaterally revert to the previous mechanics of the U taking the ball out to the kicker. They did that because they believed it was problematic getting the sideline cleared (and kept cleared) pre-KO when there was only 1 person up near the 50 and he was out there giving the ball to the kicker. In the case of the crew I am familiar with, they contributed to their own problem by not pausing at the 20's for the 45 seconds after the PAT before moving up the sideline to their respective restraining lines. That being said, it might be worth the mechanics committee looking at swapping the U and B so there will be someone on the sideline near each team area while the ball is being given to the kicker. I like that a whole lot more than having most of our U's handling the ball chores.
The problem with that mechanic is you would have the U on push mechanics to the goal line
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The Austin crew still had the B take the ball to the kicker. The U stayed on the LJ sideline and did not come in to the numbers after the ball was kicked. The B came in to numbers several times. It looked like the R noticed it on the second kickoff and said something to the U but they never changed.
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The Austin crew still had the B take the ball to the kicker. The U stayed on the LJ sideline and did not come in to the numbers after the ball was kicked. The B came in to numbers several times. It looked like the R noticed it on the second kickoff and said something to the U but they never changed.
That sounds like 5 hand picked officials and not a "crew".
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The Austin crew was a "crew". We have a few crews that have experimented with the kickoff mechanics - one that gets a lot of chatter during film reviews is the one that switches the B and L.
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So much for consistency! If crews are allowed to freelance, why do we need a mechanics manual?
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Don't know if this is tfe case in this situation but chapters can request okay to use experimental mechanics and report results to TASO
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Some have been experimenting for years.
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Some have been experimenting for years.
Very true
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Some have been experimenting for years.
LOL
Yes sir!
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Some have been experimenting for years.
classic statement
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So much for consistency! If crews are allowed to freelance, why do we need a mechanics manual?
Been told by more than one TASO clinician that the mechanics manual is a collaborative collection of best practices and that it is a like a recipe book...not a law book.
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Been told by more than one TASO clinician that the mechanics manual is a collaborative collection of best practices and that it is a like a recipe book...not a law book.
I've always been told that the mechanics manual was the gospel and do not deviate from the approved mechanics. I will get clarification next month on this issue.
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I've always been told that the mechanics manual was the gospel and do not deviate from the approved mechanics. I will get clarification next month on this issue
If its gospel Jason we have a lot of backsliders in Texas. :!#