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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: Legacy Zebra on February 03, 2014, 08:14:53 PM

Title: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: Legacy Zebra on February 03, 2014, 08:14:53 PM
For those of y'all who don't read the NFHS board, Ralph Damren posted a question and I was wondering, the NCAA ruling. So here's the question:

 (1)A's ball 4 & 10 @ 50; (2) B1 is flagged for running into the kicker; (3) A1 touches the grounded kick @ B's 35 ; (4) A2 scoops up kick @ B's 30 ; (5) B2 fumbles on return @ B's 40; (6) A scoops up fumble and returns for TD. What are the options?

My thoughts are that since the down ends in a TD, Team B's foul is declined by rule, therefore the illegal touching comes into play and B/R gets the ball . What gets me is the last sentence of 10-2-5-a-2 "Penalties for all other fouls are not enforced on the try or the succeeding kickoff. Such penalties are declined by rule unless enforcement is made possible by illegal touching of a kick during the down." But what's got me stuck is that last part. When does illegal touching make enforcement possible?
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: jg-me on February 03, 2014, 10:57:30 PM
As best as I can determine, illegal touching makes enforcement possible when B's foul occurs prior to Team A last recovering the ball prior to the A touchdown. B fouls occurring during A's last run would have a basic enforcement spot at the goal line - not enforceable.
  In Ralph's play, the B foul occurs during the kick and thus becomes enforceable. A's ball, 4/5 @ B-45.
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: Kalle on February 04, 2014, 01:46:50 AM
jg-me has it right. See A.R. 6-3-2-IV and compare it with III.
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: bossman72 on February 04, 2014, 08:29:06 AM
B fouls occurring during A's last run would have a basic enforcement spot at the goal line - not enforceable.
  In Ralph's play, the B foul occurs during the kick and thus becomes enforceable. A's ball, 4/5 @ B-45.

To me, you essentially have the spirit of the rule right there.  The reason 5's and 10's are declined by rule is because you can't enforce them anywhere.  Here, there is definitely an enforcement spot (previous spot).
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: bkdow on February 04, 2014, 09:56:56 AM
Am I missing something here?  In (4), once A2 scoops up the ball, the play is dead, correct?
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on February 04, 2014, 10:33:32 AM
I'm reading it as B2 picks up the ball since he's the one running with it.  Case play has a typo.
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: FLBJ on February 04, 2014, 12:12:09 PM
Ok, it's offseason but trying to remember 'personal fouls against the scoring team may be assessed on the try or succeeding kickoff'.

Pretty sure RTK is a 9-1 foul, no?
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: jg-me on February 04, 2014, 12:41:53 PM
While both running into kicker and roughing kicker fouls are both included in 9-1 (PF's), the specific rule identifies roughing as a live ball personal foul and cites running into as a live ball foul only. There are no personal fouls that have a five-yard penalty associated with them.
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: Rulesman on February 04, 2014, 01:56:26 PM
There are no personal fouls that have a five-yard penalty associated with them.
Even unauthorized eating of a  sNiCkErS ?
Title: Re: From the Fed Board-Illegal Touching
Post by: jg-me on February 04, 2014, 03:15:08 PM
Rulesman,
  Depending on who's snicker bar it is, the penalty may be much more severe than 15 yards!