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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: copedaddy on February 28, 2014, 09:32:51 AM
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So, TASO has taken a lead from the UIL, if we can't get people to come to the state meeting, (some of us have real jobs) then we will require them to take an online course for $75 so we don't loose out on any funds.
I think the idea is sound, but knowing TASO like I do, I am not sure that quality of education will be on par with what it should be. And the online web course servers might be overwhelmed and could lead to some not being able to finish before the season starts. :sTiR:
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Would this replace the regional clinic or would it be in addition.
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Regional Clinics still happening, however, District Clinics at the Chapter level will no longer count towards educational credit.
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I am glad TASO is implementing this policy. I believe all money generated from this venture should go towards... an improved website hEaDbAnG and HUDL training pray:;
I just hope they stick to their guns and make sure that people are not working games that have not been to a rules clinic. They have no excuse to not attend.
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What can I learn at a clinic that I can't learn in our 5 mandatory August meetings? That tells me it is all about money. Unreal.
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This is just a tax and isn't TASO supposed to be soooo much better than a governmental entity controlling football and raising registration fees on a whim? That is what we were led to believe that would happen under the UIL, they would just raise our fees at any time.
So now, in effect, TASO has added 75$ to our yearly dues, to watch a video, if it is in the guise of education how do they know YOU, the official, are the one watching?
Sounds like a great plan, if you are looking to raise capital...
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The online clinic is not meant to take the place of an actual clinic. It is to provide those who did not make a clinic a way of attending one. If you put a low cost on an online clinic then nobody would show up at the real clinics if online was cheaper. I have heard that the online clinic would be something that you couldn't just pay and be done. If anyone has ever done defensive driving online then you know how that works
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So, this is a new required clinic, that doesn't replace anything that is currently on the books, ie regional clinics...that will effectively be a 75$ tax for those that choose not to go to the state meeting.
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What can I learn at a clinic that I can't learn in our 5 mandatory August meetings? That tells me it is all about money. Unreal.
Every clinic I have ever attended I learned something or reinforced something I knew!
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I've never been to a state meeting where I got out for only $75. So, if you are telling me that I'll never have to drive to Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Harlingen, or Dallas and spend on average $400 (meals, hotel, registration and gas)...I'm a pretty happy camper!
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I think Austin's clinic is $35 or $40. I know where I'm going.
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San Antonio's is $45
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those are regional clinics right?
new 75$ online clinic <> regional clinic.
That is what we were told earlier in this thread, that we would have to attend a regional clinic as well as this 75$ online clinic if we didn't go to the state meeting.
Do we have any definitive word about this, seems to be there is some misinformation about this new "clinic" and what it does/doesn't replace. It would help if TASO would put something out about this on their new website.
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Actually, you now have three choices and you only have to accomplish one.
State Meeting
Regional Rules Clinic
On-Line Course
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Houston's clinic is included with our chapter dues so there's no reason for me to not go there.
An online option is nice to have though.
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Actually, you now have three choices and you only have to accomplish one.
State Meeting
Regional Rules Clinic
On-Line Course
That makes it a lot more palitable, but that's not how it was conveyed at the beginning of this thread. Since my chapter leadership has yet to divulge any of the secrets that were bestowed upon them at the meeting it is easy to drag out the jump to conclusions mat erroneously.
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The District Meeting was never intended to be the only educational points a member could receive to satisfy their educational point requirements, yet that is what is was being used for. For most, and if you guys think different, you are kidding yourselves, at the district meeting, guys were signing in, picking up their rule book and then out the door. You have all seen the rules changes over the past 10 years or so. How can you possibly learn all you needed to know by attending a 30-45 minute presentation on rules. How many members out of this organization of 5000 attend all the meetings they are supposed to attend? We have never even had half our membership attend a state meeting at any one time. Granted, I am not so far gone to even think that would be possible but think about it. What the Football BOD did was make another avenue available for learning. Yes, it is going to cost a little more than a Rules Clinic and it was designed to be that way. I am not speaking for everyone, just for myself, but I seem to get more out of something when I am hearing it in person and can ask questions and interact with others that know way more than I do.
If you were to look at the Rules Misapplications from games last year, ask yourself, of those involved, how many officials involved actually attended a Regional Rules Clinic or the State Meeting or just decided that the District Meeting was good enough? I don't know the answer but I have my opinion.
You have the options this year of doing 1 of the following:
Regional Rules Clinic
State Meeting
On-Line Clinic
If you go back to the litigation with the UIL, one of the main reasons given by the UIL was accountability on the part of the officials. In my opinion, that is what is happening here. We are being held accountable for our educational requirements. Is that really such a bad thing? Those of us that always attend the Regional Rules Clinic or State Meeting will continue to do so. Those officials that attend SEVERAL Rules Clinics per season will also continue to do so. The On-Line clinic is just another tool for those that want to utilize it, nothing more.
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I think the online make up should be more in my opinion.
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BJ85: I am not quite sure where you are coming from on this. On part of your post I agree with you and on others I am on the opposite side of the issue with you.
I think the misapplications of rules is across the board regardless of if you attended a rules clinic or not. I see every complaint that comes into Houston via HUDL. We got around 90 official complaints. The #1 missed call by far is BIB. #2 Targeting. I have guys with state championship pedigrees missing those and newbies missing those (and I miss those too). To state that there is a correlation between attending a rules clinic and not missing calls is a stretch. I dont know what rules clinics you have been attending but no clinic I have ever been to has been good enough/interesting enough/engaging enough to keep my attention. I get more out of reading the forums here then I have at any rules clinic.
Here is where I think the problem is with the training. Our rule book is written at a 2nd year in college level. The general population of the state of Texas reads at a 10th grade level. College grads read at a first year in college level. The only people who read books like our rules book are engineers, lawyers, and accountants. Heck I have 36 hours at the Doctorate level and I cant read more then half a chapter at a time before I want to scratch my eyeballs out. Just think about the 1st year UPS worker and his commitment. He is not going to read it.
Adults learn in a different manner then kids. Handing them a rule book and sitting them in an auditorium to listen to new rules is probably the worse way to teach an adult. When we certify "clinicians" we don't ask them what their adult learning experience is we ask them what their rules knowledge is. So then who do we have as clinicians the lawyer/accountant/engineer types who love reading technical journals.
Besides the demographics issues problem I see with TASO, the training mindset is what I think is their 2nd biggest issue. I am a bit excited about the online clinic possibilities.
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To state that there is a correlation between attending a rules clinic and not missing calls is a stretch.
Coby,
He said nothing about missing calls (everybody does that). He said misapplication of the rules, ie incorrect enforcement. I saw several instances in the televised state championships and most weren't on new rules.
Best regards,
Brad
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We officiate probably the most rules-complex sport in the world, and yet it gets even more complex with the changing and adding of rules every year. What we do is really complicated from a rules standpoint. We, all of us, are going to kick a rule every now and then. We have a lot and I mean a LOT of guys in their 50's and 60's and beyond who have no inclination to progress to the college level. Let's be honest, it is unlikely to happen at that age, although it does happen every now and then. If we were to tell those guys they are too old, what do you guys think would happen to coverage of sv games, and even varsity games? What I'm getting at is that guys that age may not put as much into officiating as some younger more eager guys. If someone expects every official in the state to never misapply a rule, I think we are really kidding ourselves. It happens to every one of us. The simple stuff should always be automatic, but the rare calls are going to occasionally cause problems for the best of us. We work a sport with imperfect players, coaching, fields, weather, lighting, etc, and officiating is right there; it will never be perfect. We also are doing this as an avocation and only have so much time to devote. I think we should expect officials to do the best they can and realize there will occasionally be mistakes, just like the other imperfections. If someone, UIL, coaches, schools, want to hold us to a very high level of accountability, fine, but you get what you pay for, part-time, not very well paid hobbyists. By expecting everyone to attend a rules clinic, TASO has just created an additional burden and, essentially, a tax. Adding this requirement doesn't make officials any better or accountable. It's just fluff. The guys that want to learn and not embarrass themselves will always learn on their own and the ones that don't wish to be better aren't going to try to be. Sitting them in a clinic isn't going to make them learn. But, with the state of officiating now days, we can't very well run them off either. Bottom line is, this requirement succeeds at nothing other than telling UIL that it is now a requirement, fluff. This, just like adding placards to the back of an official's shirt, do nothing to make us all better officials.
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Well said Doc... I ask this question a lot and no one ever has an answer. So please answer if you can....
Is High School Sports officiating the only example of the state of Texas setting fees and not allowing supply and demand to run its course?
With teachers they set a minimum but allow districts to pay more if they would like too. Is there another example of the state of Texas mandating pay for services rendered?
Supply and Demand is a powerful market corrector. The Supply of Officials gets smaller and smaller. There are more and more barriers up to enter the market (passing test, new uniforms, attending meetings etc etc). The demand for officials continues to increase (more schools, more pee wee, etc). But the Gov refuses to move the equilibrium price. The results are going to be disastrous in 10-12 years. I am getting my popcorn ready to watch. The finger pointing will be intense.
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Well said Doc... I ask this question a lot and no one ever has an answer. So please answer if you can....
Is High School Sports officiating the only example of the state of Texas setting fees and not allowing supply and demand to run its course?
With teachers they set a minimum but allow districts to pay more if they would like too. Is there another example of the state of Texas mandating pay for services rendered?
Supply and Demand is a powerful market corrector. The Supply of Officials gets smaller and smaller. There are more and more barriers up to enter the market (passing test, new uniforms, attending meetings etc etc). The demand for officials continues to increase (more schools, more pee wee, etc). But the Gov refuses to move the equilibrium price. The results are going to be disastrous in 10-12 years. I am getting my popcorn ready to watch. The finger pointing will be intense.
Might I recommend we stay on topic? (TASO Education) or thread creep will kill it. Recommend you start a new thread when we have a topic change. JMO.
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The District Meeting was never intended to be the only educational points a member could receive to satisfy their educational point requirements, yet that is what is was being used for. For most, and if you guys think different, you are kidding yourselves, at the district meeting, guys were signing in, picking up their rule book and then out the door.
Kinda the same way at the state meetings isn't it
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...Supply and Demand is a powerful market corrector. The Supply of Officials gets smaller and smaller. There are more and more barriers up to enter the market (passing test, new uniforms, attending meetings etc etc). The demand for officials continues to increase (more schools, more pee wee, etc)... The results are going to be disastrous in 10-12 years. I am getting my popcorn ready to watch. The finger pointing will be intense.
Not a problem unique to Texas and it won't be 10-12 years. I've been singing this tune for a long time.
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Passing a test or buying a uniform are not the problems. It is retention but let's not hijack this thread to go there.
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When we certify "clinicians" we don't ask them what their adult learning experience is we ask them what their rules knowledge is. So then who do we have as clinicians the lawyer/accountant/engineer types who love reading technical journals.
Coby you are WAY off base here. A lot of your points are valid but dude you missed the boat on this one
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You are the only clinician I know so if you say I am off base I will believe it.
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You are the only clinician I know so if you say I am off base I will believe it.
So you don't think I have any "adult learning experience" and I am a lawyer/accountant/engineer type who loves reading technical journals." ^flag Wrong on all 3.
If I am a crappy clinician, it is not because of any of these 3 reasons.
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You are not a crappy technician. I am sure you hit every point and do exactly what they want you to do. My point is that a gym or an auditorium with 300 people sitting in it for 4 hours is a horrible environment for any adult to learn in. Especially when the only reason you are here is to get credit for showing up. I am sure when you look out at the audience and see 3/4 of the people playing Angry Birds on their iphone or going thru the Cliff KEen catalog you would agree that the atmosphere is not set up for optimal learning?
interactive, small groups, move around, different stations, video reinforcement, check for comprehension, recheck for comprehension are all ways to make sure you are coming across to your audience.
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Point taken. And it is a good one
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Whether it is online, state meeting, district clinic, any clinic, or chapter meeting it all boils down to who wants to learn and improve themselves.
If the want to learn and get better they pay attention and ask questions. If they don't they play Angry Birds and sit on their butts!
Just my $.02
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I really don't mind the auditorium with 300 people in it, it's the 2 jerks in the back that think they ought to be conducting the gathering and trying to screw with the instructor every chance they get.
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So you don't think I have any "adult learning experience" and I am a lawyer/accountant/engineer type who loves reading technical journals." ^flag Wrong on all 3.
If I am a crappy clinician, it is not because of any of these 3 reasons.
No there are many other reasons LOL
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No there are many other reasons LOL
They have personalities on sale at Walmart. Beats that of a paper sack. tiphat:
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Before the board nanny comes on here and starts deleting these "hurtful" things, let me say I have my big girl panties on. Let 'em bring it!
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Um, I'm thinking paybacks are not the time for you to be playing with panties.
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Didn't know I saw you at Wal-Mart did you?
(http://img5.joyreactor.com/pics/post/auto-panties-302505.jpeg)
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I can never unsee that picture.
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What to expect to see at one of Mike's clinics
(http://toastdispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/PaperBag-head.jpg)
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From the stage or the audience?!
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From the stage! Hell, he's so plain he won't even have eye holes cut out.
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Back to our regularly scheduled programming........
Is the video going to be of the state meting breakouts, general meeting, what are we going to be watching?
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It will be its own thing. It is an online training program using the standard clinician powers points and videos presented in an online fashion. It will not just be sitting there and watching a video of something done someplace else
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Okey dokey tiphat:
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You are not a crappy technician. I am sure you hit every point and do exactly what they want you to do. My point is that a gym or an auditorium with 300 people sitting in it for 4 hours is a horrible environment for any adult to learn in. Especially when the only reason you are here is to get credit for showing up. I am sure when you look out at the audience and see 3/4 of the people playing Angry Birds on their iphone or going thru the Cliff KEen catalog you would agree that the atmosphere is not set up for optimal learning?
interactive, small groups, move around, different stations, video reinforcement, check for comprehension, recheck for comprehension are all ways to make sure you are coming across to your audience.
You seem to be suggesting a choreographed production with HD video and venue seating of maximum comfort and viewing, totally integrated with the clinician's presentation and his equipment.
I was the coordinator for four rules clinics in my chapter. I can tell you there is a tremendous amount of work required by a number of all volunteers to put a clinic together. I believe we got the most for what we have to work within budget and time that our chapter had. We managed to do that with food, drink, equipment vendors (things the audience demands) and not lose money on the venture.
Finding a suitable venue that has the ingredients of affordability for chapter pocketbooks, the comfort/amenities that participants demand, and offers configurable audio/video equipment so that the clinician's PC based presentation can connect, and is the same learning experience for everyone ...will cost more in time, money, and effort than anyone truly wants to bear. And incidentally, this has nothing to do with the tremendous preparation time and effort of the clinician.
It's a lot to expect. People volunteer their time on an as-available basis to put these things together. At $40 to $50, to expect to get highly polished, professional production values in an environment on par with training you get when you pay $400+/day for any type of commercial training is totally unrealistic.
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I agree we need better training formats. I've said for years what's needed is a simulated field exercise in a gym or somewhere like that and run plays with people in their "position" getting better at mechanics. For rules, its more difficult, but you can break into groups of 5 and at least go over penalty enforcement by having play scenarios and "bring" them to the group like you'd "bring" your foul to the R. I'm sure there are more ideas here.
However, with all that said, I'm a little bothered by the attitudes of some on here. TASO football changes some training and one of the first things mentioned is that it is all about money. Most on here are at the least above average in terms of taking an interest in football officiating and also in getting better.
Bottom line: if you are concerned about the cost of training, become a TASO certified clinician, volunteer your time, and find some place to hold your clinic for nothing. I will probably come.
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Become a TASO certified clinician, volunteer your time, and find some place to hold your clinic for nothing. I will probably come.
Tried that. Didn't happen. Gave up trying.
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I agree we need better training formats. I've said for years what's needed is a simulated field exercise in a gym or somewhere like that and run plays with people in their "position" getting better at mechanics. For rules, its more difficult, but you can break into groups of 5 and at least go over penalty enforcement by having play scenarios and "bring" them to the group like you'd "bring" your foul to the R. I'm sure there are more ideas here.
However, with all that said, I'm a little bothered by the attitudes of some on here. TASO football changes some training and one of the first things mentioned is that it is all about money. Most on here are at the least above average in terms of taking an interest in football officiating and also in getting better.
Bottom line: if you are concerned about the cost of training, become a TASO certified clinician, volunteer your time, and find some place to hold your clinic for nothing. I will probably come.
One of the better training scenariosTASO did was several years ago. They had a HS team set up and do various things showing good and bad mechanics to the crew.