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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: FabioBroncos on May 12, 2014, 09:15:21 AM
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Morning fellas,
We're having a tough time in Brazil (state of Sao Paulo) discussing the horse tackle collar penalty and we'd love to get some help.
Ok, a few months ago we had a clinic with 2 great NCAA officials (David Cutaia and Carl Paganelli) and they made an outstanding job talking about all the facets of this rule and other stuffs. They were really awesome.
They made it clear to us that we don't have a horse collar tackle foul if we have: (a) a grab in the front side of the jersey; (b) a grab on the name of the player without reaching the inside part of the jersey; (c) and if the grab doesn't cause the ball carrier to fall (or if he falls towards).
They also made it clear that we only have a foul if the grab occurs on back/lateral portion of the jersey/shoulder and this is the reason of the tackle, making the player to fall backwards.
The problem is that only a small number of our officials was able to make it to the clinic... So they are raising a lot of arguments and situations around this rule.
So does anybody here have some clarifying videos / PDFs / etc about this subject?
Am I missing anything on it?
How to explain them, on an easy way, how is the application part of this rule?
Thank you in advance for the enlighments...
Go Zebras!
^talk
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To add:
I am the one who brought the discussion to our group of officials. I was at the clinic, but what I don't agree is making the ball carrier accept going down (or going down backwards) for so his tackler gets a flag on HCT.
Yesterday I was the U on a game, and in a toss-run the RB got his horse collar grabbed and pulled, but he refused to go down immediatly. The defender kept pulling the horse collar, and later the inside of the shirt, then helped by a teammate the RB finally went down with the body going forward. I threw my flag, also the LJ.
My point is that the rule (in my interpretation) says that you have to be pulled down for this foul. But doesn't says that you must go down. For me there's a big difference between being pulled down by the horse collar and keep fighting for yards, and has the hand of a defender laid on the horse collar and keep fighting for yards.
Greetings from Brasil.
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This was put out in late 2012
From: Walt Anderson, Ken Rivera, and Byron Boston – Officiating Coordinators
Date: November 14, 2012
Horsecollar Rule
Just so we are clear on this rule, and we have confirmed this with Rogers Redding, the rule only requires that the player immediately pull the ball carrier “down”. This does not mean that he has to go all the way to the ground or be declared down by rule. A runner can catch himself, land on another player, or otherwise not be down by rule and continue running and still be pulled down in a manner that the intent of the rule is designed to prevent. Serious injury can occur from a runner being pulled down or to the side with this type of tackling action, so if the grab by the back or side of the collar creates an immediate downward pull of the runner, especially if there is any buckling effect of the knees or legs, that is the action that causes the injury and therefore must be called. It is NOT a requirement that this illegal action results in the runner being tackled although that commonly is the result.
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One thing that may help is to understand where this came from. Several years the Dallas Cowboys had a defensive back that was good at catching runners from behind, grabbing the back of their collar and pulling them down with all his weight (he would leave his feet). He injured some knees doing this and it was obviously dangerous. The NFL came up with their horse collar rule to prevent this kind of tackle and it has trickled down.
The danger in this tackle isn't just grabbing the horse collar (shirt or shoulder pad). It's pulling a player down backward this way with all your weight. The foul is broader than that, but this helps understand the philosophy behind the rule. We may eventually see grabbing and pulling the horse collar be a foul like grabbing and twisting a face mask, but it requires more at this time.
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To add:
I am the one who brought the discussion to our group of officials. I was at the clinic, but what I don't agree is making the ball carrier accept going down (or going down backwards) for so his tackler gets a flag on HCT.
Yesterday I was the U on a game, and in a toss-run the RB got his horse collar grabbed and pulled, but he refused to go down immediatly. The defender kept pulling the horse collar, and later the inside of the shirt, then helped by a teammate the RB finally went down with the body going forward. I threw my flag, also the LJ.
My point is that the rule (in my interpretation) says that you have to be pulled down for this foul. But doesn't says that you must go down. For me there's a big difference between being pulled down by the horse collar and keep fighting for yards, and has the hand of a defender laid on the horse collar and keep fighting for yards.
Greetings from Brasil.
The key to officiating the horse collar tackle is looking for knee buckle. If the knees didn't buckle, or he didn't twist awkwardly going down, then it's not a foul. That is what the rule is meant to prevent.
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Love the rocking chair Matt.