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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TexDoc on July 30, 2014, 07:15:33 AM
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Thoughts on this question? Maybe I'm just missing something, but how can you have 1/10 from anywhere inside the 10 yard line when on your opponent's side of the 50? Explain to me what I'm missing here. I just may not be awake yet. Seems to me the penalty leaves the ball at the B-6.5, A's ball, 1/G. Clock on snap.
4/4@B-13. Running back A23 is tackled inbounds at the B-10. B76 was lined up in the neutral zone at the snap.
a.
Team A 1/10 @ B-8; clock starts on the ready
b.
Team A 1/10 @ B-5; clock starts on the snap
c.
Team A 1/10 @B-8; clock starts on the snap
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Check the UIL Exceptions this year. Now that we are effectively following the NCAA timing rules for the most part, since B is not actually snapping the ball clock starts on the ready
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OK, I understand that change, but 'splain to me how we have a 1/10 by A inside B's 10 yd line. And, the yard line after the penalty is incorrect. There is no right answer, if I understand this question correctly.
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Another crappy question. From where was the ball kicked on the opening ko? I assume from the A-40, but it doesn't say. If it was, then contact by A on B82 at the A-49 is illegal, since the ball has not traveled 10 yards and has not been touched by B. My answer is d, but I have to make assumptions with the question, which I should not have to do. This one needs fixing.
A19 on the opening kickoff surprises the receiving team by kicking the ball into the ground. B82 is positioned to recover the ball at the A-49 after it has bounced twice, when he is contacted by A32 as A32 subsequently recovers the kick.
a.
No foul - ball continues in play with a bean bag thrown to mark the spot of recovery
b.
No foul - ball is blown dead when recovered. Team B's ball 1 & 10 at A-49
c.
Kick Catch Interference. B's ball 1 & 10 at A-34
d.
None of the above
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Another crappy question. This is the type of horrible question we used to see on tests, just a play on words. No, A does not have to "punt" the ball. They can kick it from a tee. This one needs fixing. No "play on words" questions should be used. The question should be changed to "the kicking team MAY punt..."
After a safety, the kicking team must punt the ball from any point behind Team A's restraining line, but all other Team A players must be behind the ball when kicked.
a.
True
b.
False
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A19 on the opening kickoff surprises the receiving team by kicking the ball into the ground. B82 is positioned to recover the ball at the A-49 after it has bounced twice, when he is contacted by A32 as A32 subsequently recovers the kick.
a.
No foul - ball continues in play with a bean bag thrown to mark the spot of recovery
b.
No foul - ball is blown dead when recovered. Team B's ball 1 & 10 at A-49
c.
Kick Catch Interference. B's ball 1 & 10 at A-34
d.
None of the above
Why isn't it B? team A illegally touched the ball at the A-49 so ball goes to B at that spot 1st and 10. You don't have to make assumptions, just don't over think it. KO's are typicaly from the A-40 . If they want you to consider it was kicked from elsewhere they would tell you that
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Why isn't it B? team A illegally touched the ball at the A-49 so ball goes to B at that spot 1st and 10. You don't have to make assumptions, just don't over think it. KO's are typicaly from the A-40 . If they want you to consider it was kicked from elsewhere they would tell you that
It needs to say that it was kicked from the 40. If the ball has not traveled 10 yards from where kicked and B has not touched it, then A cannot "block" team B players, since A is not eligible to touch the ball yet. Crappy question because is says A "contacted" B82, which I read as illegal. Really, the point is, what is being attempted by the question? It is very poorly written.
6-1-12:
Eligibility to Block
ARTICLE 12
No Team A player may block an opponent until Team A is eligible to touch a
free-kicked ball. (A.R. 6-1-3-II)
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I think the same question last year said incidentally contacted. Would that be good enough for you?
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I think the same question last year said incidentally contacted. Would that be good enough for you?
If that's not part of the reason for the question, then why even say anything about contact? Just leave that out.
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What's different here? Looks like same question.
Question #40
Third and 7 on B-17. QB A11 hands off to Back A22 at the B-20. A22 runs to the B-14 where he is hit by B31, is spun around, keeps his feet, runs and is tackled by B52 at the B-9, where he is actually downed. A22 then gets up and spikes the ball. Ruling: First and 10 A at the B-24.
Question #41
Third and 7 on B-17. QB A11 hands off to Back A22 at the B-20. A22 runs to the B-14 where he is hit by B31, is spun around, keeps his feet, runs and is tackled by B52 at the B-9, where he is actually downed. A22 then gets up and spikes the ball. Ruling: First and 10 A at the B-24.
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If that's not part of the reason for the question, then why even say anything about contact? Just leave that out.
It IS part of the question. Guys need to know the difference between blocking and incidental contact in this situation
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It IS part of the question. Guys need to know the difference between blocking and incidental contact in this situation
OK, then you absolutely must include "incidentally" if that's the point. Without it, assumptions have to be made.
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Another bad one:
Question #47
If the defensive team commits a foul during a play that ends in a touchdown, the penalty is enforced on the try.
It depends! Another "wording" question. Be clear. If the point is, we want you to know that some are penalized and some are not, then state the question that way.
I'm being critical, but we really need to fix these tests.
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You are overthinking it. The statement is a concrete statement with no "may" or "if" in it. We know there are exceptions so that makes the concrete statement false. The way the statement reads, that is the only option. That is false
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You are overthinking it. The statement is a concrete statement with no "may" or "if" in it. We know there are exceptions so that makes the concrete statement false. The way the statement reads, that is the only option. That is false
This is exactly the kind of very, very crappy question that proves nothing about your knowledge of the rules! It needs to be fixed or thrown out. A play on words is not what we need to be tested on.
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So if 95% of the testtakers get that question correct you still don't think it's a good question?
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agree it was a crappy question... it either needs to read that A incidentally contacted him, or A blocked him. simply saying "contact" isn't providing enough information. those familiar with the rule about early contact are likely to miss this one.
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Team A players (the kicking team) are eligible to block Team B once the ball is kicked.
what type of kick? free kick, scrimmage kick? makes a difference based on the users assumption, I am sure this is for a free kick, but...
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How many times have you had a kickoff from anywhere other than the 40 on the opening kick-off?
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I do agree that many test questions can be a lot more clearly stated or written.
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How many times have you had a kickoff from anywhere other than the 40 on the opening kick-off?
Even if remote, is there a chance an opening kickoff could be made from some other yard line? And, what is the relevance of this question using "opening kickoff?" Do the rules somehow change from any other kickoff? Why not just say, no a kickoff from the kicking team's 40...
Seems too logical.
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And we could all be a little slimmer, a little faster, a little more knowledgeable, a little more whatever... But we is what we is. ;D ;)
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And we could all be a little slimmer, a little faster, a little more knowledgeable, a little more whatever... But we is what we is. ;D ;)
That is true!!
LOL
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And the tests should be getting better year over year. Although it is better than it was 7/8 years ago, there doesn't seem to be much progress since then. It seems the test is more a foothold for TASO to say we all passed a test instead of a tool to really test our knowledge. But, with very weak numbers, that might be a good thing.
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Totally disagree Doc. This years test was far better than years past. You're never going to find a perfect question unless you hire a professional test writer. I had no trouble taking and passing the test. Just don't read so much into the questions. The questions are not trying to trick us and IMO are very straight forward. Could some be improved? Sure. Does that make them "crappy" and "horrible"? I don't think so. Maybe we should give someone else a chance to write the test bank next year....any takers?
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Sign me up. I've already offered. We just need more proof readers.
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Don't forget the hardest part about writing these test is the wide range of test takers. I've been critical of the test, but I'm usually looking at it from the perspective of rookies. Being involved with their training I read the questions and think about how will the newbies understand these questions. A guy who has been calling more than 5 years should have NO problem passing this test and really should be a B if not an A.
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Doc, do you want to proofread 400 test questions?
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Jason, if the offer stands, sure, why not.
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Sign me up!
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Maybe one of you rule gurus can explain this question to me. To me it's very poorly worded and the explanation is worse in that it doesn't appear to apply to this question;
Team A is winning 21-18 with 45 seconds remaining in the game when Team A's 4th down play ends in bounds short of the line to gain. When the umpire spots the ball, 19 seconds remain on the play clock and 25 seconds on the game clock. The referee should not stop the game, but simply give the 1-hand overhead pump signal. After the 25 second clock is reset, the referee should give the chop signal to start the play clock.
The answer is b. False and the explanation given is;
Explanation
3-2-4-b-3. Since time is critical, the game clock should be stopped and the play clock set to 25 seconds. Both clocks would start on the R winding ready-for-play signal. ???
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The play situation with "contact" is a good question for rules but just saying contact and asking some guys to not read much into it etc is not good. I am a guy who if you tell me "contact" on a short kick immediatley is thinking illegal block. Contact can mean block to some folks and incidental contact to others. It simply is not clear.
Questions in my opinion, should have all clear facts related to the play situation as if they are discussed on the field. The test is better this year but there are some questions that could be better.
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Maybe one of you rule gurus can explain this question to me. To me it's very poorly worded and the explanation is worse in that it doesn't appear to apply to this question;
Team A is winning 21-18 with 45 seconds remaining in the game when Team A's 4th down play ends in bounds short of the line to gain. When the umpire spots the ball, 19 seconds remain on the play clock and 25 seconds on the game clock. The referee should not stop the game, but simply give the 1-hand overhead pump signal. After the 25 second clock is reset, the referee should give the chop signal to start the play clock.
The answer is b. False and the explanation given is;
Explanation
3-2-4-b-3. Since time is critical, the game clock should be stopped and the play clock set to 25 seconds. Both clocks would start on the R winding ready-for-play signal. ???
This one is bad. How is both clocks going to run if A was short of the line to gain and B takes over?
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This one is bad. How is both clocks going to run if A was short of the line to gain and B takes over?
That was exactly my thought. You can't have it both ways.
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Classic example of trying to too put too much into a question. I think his purpose on this question was that when time is critical we stop the game to get both clocks right. However neither clock would "be running" after a failed 4th down play. So the question should have been worded to say "3rd down". That's how I read it and answered that way. But, we should NOT have to guess what the writer was "thinking" when he wrote the question. I absolutely think TASO should look at putting together a group of officials just to proof the questions, different from the writer. And yes, there are enough test nerds out here that would volunteer to split up 400 questions to proof. :)
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Classic example of trying to too put too much into a question. I think his purpose on this question was that when time is critical we stop the game to get both clocks right. However neither clock would "be running" after a failed 4th down play. So the question should have been worded to say "3rd down". That's how I read it and answered that way. But, we should NOT have to guess what the writer was "thinking" when he wrote the question. I absolutely think TASO should look at putting together a group of officials just to proof the questions, different from the writer. And yes, there are enough test nerds out here that would volunteer to split up 400 questions to proof. :)
tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat:
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A19 on the opening kickoff surprises the receiving team by kicking the ball into the ground. B82 is positioned to recover the ball at the A-49 after it has bounced twice, when he is contacted by A32 as A32 subsequently recovers the kick.
a. No foul - ball continues in play with a bean bag thrown to mark the spot of recovery
b. No foul - ball is blown dead when recovered. Team B's ball 1 & 10 at A-49
c. Kick Catch Interference. B's ball 1 & 10 at A-34
d. None of the above
I have a problem with this because we kick from the A40. Team A is blocking before they are eligible to touch a free kick. Anyone else see what I am seeing? They said the answer is B but I disagree.
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A19 on the opening kickoff surprises the receiving team by kicking the ball into the ground. B82 is positioned to recover the ball at the A-49 after it has bounced twice, when he is contacted by A32 as A32 subsequently recovers the kick.
a. No foul - ball continues in play with a bean bag thrown to mark the spot of recovery
b. No foul - ball is blown dead when recovered. Team B's ball 1 & 10 at A-49
c. Kick Catch Interference. B's ball 1 & 10 at A-34
d. None of the above
I have a problem with this because we kick from the A40. Team A is blocking before they are eligible to touch a free kick. Anyone else see what I am seeing? They said the answer is B but I disagree.
This question is page 1 of the thread. Sounds like we do not consider "contact" a block and thus incidental so no foul.
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This question is page 1 of the thread. Sounds like we do not consider "contact" a block and thus incidental so no foul.
So then explain to me the definition of blocking if blocking is contacting an opponent with any part of the blockers body. Are we separating it between intent an not? He didn't have the intent of contacting him therefore it is disregarded?
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I did not write and I do not like it either.
texmike"It IS part of the question. Guys need to know the difference between blocking and incidental contact in this situation"
The question needs to say incidental contact or simply block. If I am another official on the field and reporting this foul I am likely not saying "contact".
It is not a well written question and thus why the thread before this point went into guys saying we should have proof readers etc.
Blocking
ARTICLE 1. a. Blocking is obstructing an opponent by contacting him with any
part of the blocker’s body.
b. Pushing is blocking an opponent with open hands.
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Not saying you did. I get the intent of the question...they are stressing that you cannot have KCI after it bounces twice. But when reading that question, I have a foul. A knows they can't block until they are eligible to touch the ball and they become eligible when either B touches the ball or it touches anything beyond and remains beyond B's restraining line. Get away from him until then!
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I did not write and I do not like it either.
texmike"It IS part of the question. Guys need to know the difference between blocking and incidental contact in this situation"
The question needs to say incidental contact or simply block. If I am another official on the field and reporting this foul I am likely not saying "contact".
It is not a well written question and thus why the thread before this point went into guys saying we should have proof readers etc.
Blocking
ARTICLE 1. a. Blocking is obstructing an opponent by contacting him with any
part of the blocker’s body.
b. Pushing is blocking an opponent with open hands.
I looked at a copy of a test from last year and the question said incidentally contacted. Not sure if the word was deliberately taken out this year or it dropped out in the process of converting their test bank date (which I believe is in Excel) into whatever arbitersports uses to publish the test
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Maybe one of you rule gurus can explain this question to me. To me it's very poorly worded and the explanation is worse in that it doesn't appear to apply to this question;
Team A is winning 21-18 with 45 seconds remaining in the game when Team A's 4th down play ends in bounds short of the line to gain. When the umpire spots the ball, 19 seconds remain on the play clock and 25 seconds on the game clock. The referee should not stop the game, but simply give the 1-hand overhead pump signal. After the 25 second clock is reset, the referee should give the chop signal to start the play clock.
The answer is b. False and the explanation given is;
Explanation
3-2-4-b-3. Since time is critical, the game clock should be stopped and the play clock set to 25 seconds. Both clocks would start on the R winding ready-for-play signal. ???
If it said 3d down play would you agree with the answer?
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Yes.
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Maybe one of you rule gurus can explain this question to me. To me it's very poorly worded and the explanation is worse in that it doesn't appear to apply to this question;
Team A is winning 21-18 with 45 seconds remaining in the game when Team A's 4th down play ends in bounds short of the line to gain. When the umpire spots the ball, 19 seconds remain on the play clock and 25 seconds on the game clock. The referee should not stop the game, but simply give the 1-hand overhead pump signal. After the 25 second clock is reset, the referee should give the chop signal to start the play clock.
The answer is b. False and the explanation given is;
Explanation
3-2-4-b-3. Since time is critical, the game clock should be stopped and the play clock set to 25 seconds. Both clocks would start on the R winding ready-for-play signal. ???
Let's assume they meant 3rd down. Maybe my math is bad but it sounds like the play ended with 45 seconds left in the game but the play clock was started with 46 seconds left??
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This is just gonna be called the "snickers question."
1. Gonna be there a while trying to figure it out.
2. Since the numbers don't add up, must have been written by an umpire.
:)
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here is one that hasn't been updated to go with the new AR changes.
B17 is the first player to touch a free kick from the 25 yard line when he leaps from inbounds, catches the kick and subsequently lands out of bounds with the ball in his possession at the B-27.
a. Free kick out of bounds - Team A re-kick from Team A's 20 yard line
b. Free kick out of bounds - Team B 1 & 10 at the Team B 30 yard line
c. No free kick out of bounds - Team B 1 & 10 at the Team B 27 yard line
d. None of the above
A is marked as the correct answer with the following Explanation AR 6-2-2-IV
Here is that AR from the 2014 revised book.
Free kick at the A-35. B17 leaps from inbounds and is the first player to touch Team A’s free kick when he grasps the ball while airborne. He then lands out of bounds with the ball in his control. RULING: Not a foul for free kick out of bounds. B17 is inbounds when he touches the kick. Team B will have the ball at the yard line where B17 crossed the sideline. (Rule 2-27-15)
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So I finally took the test today. Missed three. Semantics about whether "4 o'clock" is "side" or "back", still confused about what was meant by "contacted with a blow to the helmet" (legal play, so must not be what I was picturing), but I think this one must be wrong:
After the ready-for-play signal, substitute B1 enters the defensive formation and the departing player does not delay more than three seconds before leaving the huddle or formation and departing the field of play. RULING: Legal play
a. True
b. False
"Correct" answer is false?
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The ones I typically have a problem with are when they say "X SHOULD happen" or whenever there are those grey area things where while it might be TECHNICALLY correct to do an action, in practice we all know you might give a little leeway.
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Are we going to be able to review our test results and see which ones we actually missed?
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Log back in and you should see where you can review the results.
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Just looked under testing and it showed my test but no way I could see to review it.
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Now that the test I took is closed, I can't see any way to review it, either.