RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXMike on August 06, 2014, 08:25:41 AM
-
Is anyone hearing any push back from coaches or AD's re the point of emphasis this year on having balls from both teams on each sideline? We have been doing the training sessions with clock operators and coaches on the 25/40 and that seems to be the biggest topic of concern for many coaches (right up there with substitution management). Many of them are very worried about putting their kids on the opposing sideline. The thought is that kids will be kids and there may well be exchanges that could get ugly. Coaches do not want to : 1 - expose their kids to such situations, and 2 - be responsible for overseeing the well being of the other team's kids when they are on their sideline. Even when offered the alternative of simply sending some game balls to the other side so they can be worked there by that team, they are worried that the balls will be "messed with."
-
When this was first attempted several years ago, not only was there push back from coaches, but also parents. Nobody wanted their child/student where there could be problems with the other side's personnel. I don't think attitudes have changed based on your post, it is the same complaints heard then.
-
Why does it have to be a kid (subvarsity player or coaches young kid) that has opposite sideline responsibility? I can understand why Coach A would not want a Jr High coach from Team B to be the ball person, but I am sure that there are responsible adults who would be willing to help their team by performing this function and having a legitimate chance to be on the sidelines for a game.
-
I don't like the idea at all. Too many opportunities for trouble no matter who you have as a ball person. I already have to deal with chain crews keeping quite I don't want to have to add to that.
-
There's no reason to put the Home ball boys on the visitor's sidelines. Just have 2 ball boys on each from that team with 1 designated to handle the other team's balls. When the ball boy's team is on defense, he is the chaser. I'll go one further -- have the home side home team ball boy wear a dark shirt and the home side visitor team ball boy wear white. Opposite on the other sideline.
With this, the biggest problem is keeping them focused on what's going on in the game rather than playing catch.
-
So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "Hell no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"
-
So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "HECK no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"
LOL
-
Why not amend the rule to home team supplies the game balls. Most districts would probably vote to have a "district" ball type used in all district games. Pre district games home team supplies. Period on option. Four balls with two on each side line with the team having their kids as ball persons. Perhaps the UIL could adopt a official state ball that would be used in all playoff games. (could be twisted into a big money maker for the UIL) That would get most teams using that ball.
OK, I know that I have a better chance of winning the Lotto, struck by lightning and attacked by a polar bear all in the same year, but, I can dream.
-
Trying to tell Nick Saban he has to play with a ball supplied by Gus Malzahn would be a tough sell. If one can successfully pull that off I have some swampy real estate I want them to list. LOL
-
So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "HECK no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"
Option A - Use your well-developed negotiation and communication skills to convince him otherwise.
Option B - Hand him this blurb form the UIL Football Manual: The home team should provide a minimum of three legal game balls, and the visiting team, if it desires to use its own game balls, should also provide a minimum of three legal game balls. The home team shall provide a minimum of two ball persons (preferably age 12 or older); one ball person should be positioned on the home sideline, and the other should be positioned on the visiting sideline. In this case, each ball person should assist
the officials with the game balls for both teams. The visiting team shall have the option of providing two additional ball persons (preferably age 12 or older) to assist the officials with their own game balls, if desired. Note: If the visiting team chooses to use its own ball persons, they must provide two persons; one to be positioned on the visiting sideline, and one on the home sideline. In this case, the ball persons from each team would handle only the game balls for their respective teams.
Option C - Recruit some ball persons of your own from the crowd and advise the coach you have your own ball persons and they will manage the balls on the other sideline. (I have recruited chain crews before when the home team's did not show or were not coordinated for. Just takes a little time to scope out the crowd and you can find the teenager or young adult who seems genuinely interested in the players on the field (even during pregame) and is not just there to "hang out." )
-
Just an idea a little outside the box. Why not have the U hold an extra ball at all times from the team that is on O? You could create a pouch or something where the U can hold the ball on his lower back and pop it out when needed, then work another ball to him when time allows. When changing O's, you bring in two balls.
-
Not that much outside the box. When the Big XII first went to 8 officials they were going to have the 8th guy keep a ball in a pouch. Not sure that idea made it past the Spring scrimmages but it was on the table at first.
-
I like the pouch idea. I could keep a ball, a few Snickers and a couple bottles of Gatorade. LOL LOL LOL
-
I thought a bunch of our guys already had a pouch with a ball in it. Oh, well.
Coaches are just going to have to pick: either ball boy on the other side, or the other team's handle their balls.
-
I think this is gonna be a train wreck. Sub-varsity is gonna be even worse. Between walking wounded on chains and clueless ball boys.
Key to all if this is for US to stay calm and work with whatever system we have that night. Even on Saturdays with7 officials, and 6 ball boys and 12 footballs things get mixed up. Even with experienced clock operators the clock is wrong. We just need to step back and realize this rule was not designed for 5 man and typical HS ball boys. Just have fun and let them play.
-
Since it's just "recommended" I suspect nothing will change this year.
-
I think this is gonna be a train wreck. Sub-varsity is gonna be even worse. Between walking wounded on chains and clueless ball boys.
Key to all if this is for US to stay calm and work with whatever system we have that night. Even on Saturdays with7 officials, and 6 ball boys and 12 footballs things get mixed up. Even with experienced clock operators the clock is wrong. We just need to step back and realize this rule was not designed for 5 man and typical HS ball boys. Just have fun and let them play.
Do we really worry about a play clock that much in sub-vars? And speaking for myself, at subvarsity I am not going to work hard for both team's balls on each sideline. If they want to do it, fine. If not, so be it
-
Mike- Exactly, we don't and shouldn't. But that doesn't stop some 7th grade "visor king" from jawing at our newer officials that we are slowing down their game. It's our job as experienced officials to teach our young guys how to manage these situations.
-
I hear ya and know what you mean. But it will be no different than most other complaints we receive at that level...consider the source. "You are right coach, the 3 of us trying to manage these 22 kids as well as those 3 no pass - no play players you have on the chains and the 2 suspended kids you have running the balls, is just not working out well. My apologies."
-
The first UIL report that comes down the road that the ball boy from the visiting team was hassled, cussed, physically bumped, nudged, or what ever, some one will figure out this is not the best idea to come along. Can you imagine some 12 year old kid who tried to get the ball to an official and the third team tackle that out sizes the kid by 150 pounds runs into him and knocks him down? Accident, intentional,what ever, there is going to be heck to pay. And this happens at the end of the 2nd quarter and the coaches have 28 minutes to stew over it, I am not about to tell him it's nothing coach, it will be all right.
-
Mike- Exactly, we don't and shouldn't. But that doesn't stop some 7th grade "visor king" from jawing at our newer officials that we are slowing down their game. It's our job as experienced officials to teach our young guys how to manage these situations.
One of the first things we taught our new guys was how to throw the flag on one of those "visor kings". First time they act like a fool, ^flag
-
The first UIL report that comes down the road that the ball boy from the visiting team was hassled, cussed, physically bumped, nudged, or what ever, some one will figure out this is not the best idea to come along. Can you imagine some 12 year old kid who tried to get the ball to an official and the third team tackle that out sizes the kid by 150 pounds runs into him and knocks him down? Accident, intentional,what ever, there is going to be heck to pay. And this happens at the end of the 2nd quarter and the coaches have 28 minutes to stew over it, I am not about to tell him it's nothing coach, it will be all right.
I for one would not want any responsibility for the ball boys being on the opposing sideline.
-
So who is "harmed" when we can't get a ball when/where we need it, the offense. Theoretically the most likely time this will occur is a deep pass out of bounds that is incomplete and the ball bounces across the track and is left there.
In that case, the only clock in issue is the play clock, why make more of this than it is, get the ball in from the offensive sideline, if you can't get it down by 20 sec, we have the rule in place to pump the clock back up to 25 when the ball does get set and go on with the game.
If there is a case where the game clock is running, I doubt that anyone would notice any big time differential in getting the ball in from the offensive sideline. Would it be good to have balls on both sides? Absolutely, but I can definitely see the coaches argument about not wanting their balls or personnel on the other sideline.
Or am I missing something?
-
We had an inter-squad scrimmage yesterday where the coach wanted 2 full quarters of full game action (sans special teams).
They had one ball person, a runner and 3 balls. The ball person stayed entirely on the home side. Now the ball person wasn't a small kid and was attentive to what was going on and not playing on his phone or chasing cheerleaders.
They had their play clock operator there.
They had a few kids on the chains, so that was the only part that wasn't true to what we would get on fri night.
Over two quarters, out of probably 10 instances where the ball was incomplete OOB on the visitors side, there was one time that was even close to getting to 20, and that one was down and ready for play with 23 to go.
There was one long run up the middle that ended in bounds where the chains weren't completely set up at the next snap (down box was there, chain wasn't completely "stretched") and that was it.
The most common issue was getting the clock set to 25 when it needed to be, other than that, it was much adoo about nothing.
-
I would gues part of this was your crew's conscious attention to the play clock and your attempt to make it work with what you had available. If this change does nothing more than make crews aware of how long it is taking them that it is a success. As we know, we always were supposed to get the ball ready for play within 12 to 15 seconds. We just never had anything checking us on that before like we do now.
-
With my wide collection of Houston ISD and private school games. Both of which traditionally supply 0 ball boys. Can I train my 6 year old to be my crew ball boy? I can have him run to the defensive team side of the field when the ball turns over, and bring a ball with him? My 6 year old will literally be better then 90% of the ball boys I have ever had. This is going to be a pain in the IDIOT. So will TASO let me or will they have problems with it?
-
We had an inter-squad scrimmage yesterday where the coach wanted 2 full quarters of full game action (sans special teams).
They had one ball person, a runner and 3 balls. The ball person stayed entirely on the home side. Now the ball person wasn't a small kid and was attentive to what was going on and not playing on his phone or chasing cheerleaders.
They had their play clock operator there.
They had a few kids on the chains, so that was the only part that wasn't true to what we would get on fri night.
Over two quarters, out of probably 10 instances where the ball was incomplete OOB on the visitors side, there was one time that was even close to getting to 20, and that one was down and ready for play with 23 to go.
There was one long run up the middle that ended in bounds where the chains weren't completely set up at the next snap (down box was there, chain wasn't completely "stretched") and that was it.
The most common issue was getting the clock set to 25 when it needed to be, other than that, it was much adoo about nothing.
Done many a JUCO games when the balls were kept only on the offensive teams side. Granted we had 7 men but still had the same spotting successes. Mostly set around 25-22 seconds. In agreement with Mike that if your crew is aware and pregames and talks with ball persons about what is going to happen, you can easily manage this.
-
We worked a scrimmage last night with just ball boys on the home sides. In over 300 plays, we never had to pump the clock back to 25 and we never had a problem with a ball on the wrong sideline. If the two sets of ball boys will cooperate, it works fine.
-
We have each team supply a ball-boy, and they keep track of 2 (we don't require 3) balls for their team.
I don't see the advantage of having balls from both teams on both sidelines, as an U I know to get to my spot
and wait for the R to relay the ball in from the correct sideline. The difference in transfer time to the far hash mark should really be more than to the near hash mark (theoretically)
Our rule is also at least 12 years old, and we tell them to keep near us when their team is on O and keep an eye out if there is a turnover (but they don't have to be glued next to us when their team is on D).
-
James -
Do you use the 40 second play clock? That is where the advantage of having balls on ea sideline will really be noticed. Also, the mechanic of U's holding at the hash is outdated as U's are now expected to get out into the sidezone to help with action there.
-
No to the play clock, and yes to helping clean up in the zone, but for relaying the ball if it is not right there we get back to the suceeding spot and let the others do the work.
Point taken about the clock, without personal experience I shouldn't have an opinion. :)
-
In our game Friday night, the Home Team had ball boys on each sideline. We had to replace one over enthusiastic home team ball boy before the game (basically, not let him be on the visiting side line).
It took the H/U and Ball boys a series or two to work it out, but once they did, the U would get the home teams ball from whatever sideline it was closest too.
Worked pretty well. We were averaging 7-9s per play getting the ball spotted. The teams didnt move that fast on a hot, muggy evening.
-
Had our first game with ball boys on both sides. It took a series or two but we finally got used to it and it worked very smoothly. As far as the kids getting along they practically talked all game. Video games mostly but some team talk and how they thought they would do. I also must point out that it was a 57-0 blow out.