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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: The Ref Thats Lef on October 08, 2014, 04:27:28 PM
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There was a Texas High School play last week which I have clipped at https://vimeo.com/108396867.
Those who have seen it agree it is a false start but it raised a what if. Had the formation set and then the snapper gone in motion, assuming he ended up moving sideways, could he snap the ball as a motion man?
I have a view but wondered what others think.
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Does the snapper have to be a lineman? yes Can a lineman be in motion at the snap - no
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I've got illegal motion by the offense since they never got set after breaking the huddle. ^flag
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I've got illegal motion by the offense since they never got set after breaking the huddle. ^flag
This is a false start in NCAA.
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Are we looking only at the snapper? I personally think he was set for a sufficient, albeit short, amount of time. We don't have a stopwatch -- its one second, but in reality, its one "count." If you don't think there was ANY pause, then, yeah, its a FS. I think there was SOME pause.
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What is the mantra? On trick plays they have to be perfectly legal
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At no point all 22 players on Team A are set for a second. The lineman outside the hashes pivot right before the snap. They might have been set for a second before the snap but the snapper never was. So false start IMO
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Dayum!!!! You let them play with 22 down there ? ??
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Dayum!!!! You let them play with 22 down there ? ??
Double your pleasure, double your fun. cRaZy
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The way to run this play legally would be to be sure that none of the other ten players move after the snapper starts running to the ball. As a lineman, he cannot be in motion at the snap, true, but he only has to stop for a fraction of a second, not a full second - unless there is a shift. The one second rule applies only to shifts. If you never create a shift, by never having two guys moving at the same time, then there's no requirement about being set for the full second. A much shorter pause will do.
Unfortunately in this case, as soon as the other linemen turn around 180 degrees, that's movement and a shift has started. Now the ball cannot legally be snapped until everyone is set for One Mississippi. That doesn't happen in this play. Flag it.
Now is this a live-ball illegal shift, for an illegal shift happening after the entire team was stationary for a second after the RFP? Or a dead-ball false start, for an illegal shift without the entire team being stationary?
It appears that the entire team is stationary for a second immediately after the RFP signal and before the snapper starts running. However, in practice, we don't typically consider a huddle to be a set position - that is, we typically blow-and-throw when a team never gets set after a huddle. So I guess the question is whether this team's position at the RFP is a huddle or a true all-stationary state.
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There was absolutely no pause whatsoever from the snapper. He reaches down and grabs the ball and tosses it to the back.
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So I guess the question is whether this team's position at the RFP is a huddle or a true all-stationary state.
This looks like a huddle to me. I think it's better to shut this one down.
Good post, Morningrise. You gave me some things to think about with that one.
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Which would satisify the "set" for the snapper?
a) be in the "snapper" position for one second
b) set with hands on or near the ball for a second
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Which would satisify the "set" for the snapper?
a) be in the "snapper" position for one second
b) set with hands on or near the ball for a second
Are you saying he was set for a second? Because if so your second and mine are way off. As a baseball ump I wouldn't even say that was enough of a pause to keep me from calling a balk.
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Nope, asking which one (or both) would satisfy the "set" required to be legal.
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Not to split hairs here, maybe Txmike or some others can clarify this, but Chapter 2 Section 23 "Snapping the Ball" paragraph e states: Unless moved in a backward direction, the movement of the ball does not
start a legal snap. It is not a legal snap if the ball is first moved forward or
lifted.
Something just didn't look clean to me, deception was the focus of the play, looks like the center picks up the ball and tosses it backwards, illegal snap, shut it down.
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How about an illegal formation too? We have one who isn't a lineman and isn't a back.
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Dayum!!!! You let them play with 22 down there ? ??
we barely have fields big enough for 22 players on both teams...
football with 44 players would be chaos!!!!! better do that with one official only!