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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: dvasques on November 22, 2014, 03:44:42 PM
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So, because of a personal foul enforced at the kickoff after e touchdown, we have:
KO A @ 50 yard line
Kicker A8 kicks the ball and it goes out of bounds untouched at B-3
Do we enforce 30 yards from the spot of the kick or should we enforce only half the distance (25 yards)? Assuming B doesn't want to re-kick or take the ball at B-8.
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For the life of me I can't remember the right answer. The technical reading of the rule would say that it is always 30 yards, as rule 10-2-6 talks about the offending team goal line and in this case we are going towards the offended team goal line.
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30 yards to the 20. Most likely will want a Rekick.
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I think its half the distance. Team A could kick off from deep inside Team B's side of the field. In such cases, there is no reason not to onside. Team B's coach may not want to risk a second onside and may take the ball. Of course, he can take it from the OOB spot plus 5 but absent a clear exception (and the only exception to half the distance is DPI), I think you have to give B the option.
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10-2-6 specifically says that a penalty cannot exceed half the distance from the enforcement spot to the OFFENDING team's goal line. The thirty yards for a free kick out of bounds does not move toward the kicking team's goal line. Half the distance does not apply.
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The option to take the ball 30 yds from the spot of the kick is not considered a penalty therefore it does not fall under 10-2-6. If you look at the ARs on the rule it never calls putting the ball in play 30 yds beyond K's restraining line a penalty. It is an option.
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The option to take the ball 30 yds from the spot of the kick is not considered a penalty therefore it does not fall under 10-2-6. If you look at the ARs on the rule it never calls putting the ball in play 30 yds beyond K's restraining line a penalty. It is an option.
It is listed as a penalty option in 6-2-1-penalty, so I think your analysis is incorrect.
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I would agree with Kalle, it is listed as a penalty in 6-2-1:
SECTION 2. Free Kick Out of Bounds / Kicking Team
ARTICLE 1. A free kick out of bounds between the goal lines untouched by an inbounds player of Team B is a foul (A.R. 6-2-1-I-II and 4-2-1-III).
PENALTY—Live-ball foul. Five yards from the previous spot; or five yards from the spot where the subsequent dead ball belongs to Team B; or the receiving team may put the ball in play 30 yards beyond Team A’s restraining line at the hash mark [S19].
Can't find any AR's or RR memos that specifically address this issue, but the available option of a re-kick would seem to eliminate a possible "unfair result" and would probably be the first choice in most cases.
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I agree it is an option for the penalty of free kick out of bounds -- and may be used to offset a Receiving Team foul. But the original question is would it be 1/2 the distance to the 25 or the full 30 yard option to the 20. I contend it is not a 1/2 the distance penalty since it is moving the ball forward and not back. So, the Receiving team in this case has the option of a) the 20 b) the 8 or c) rekick. Likely take rekick, but the real option for coach is "do you want it at the 20 or rekick from from A45.
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Having another option does not mean you can ignore a clearly written rule provision that is not in conflict with something else. We don't have a rules conflict here; just something that doesn't happen much, if at all.
Those saying it is not a penalty are simply wrong. ALL fouls have penalties. ALL penalty options are still penalties -- if its listed under "penalty," its there for a reason. NO penalty may be enforced more than half the distance...(except for DPI). These are simple statements of the rules. Can anyone refute any of the statements?
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Can anyone refute any of the statements?
Yes, and it's already been done in this thread.
NO penalty may be enforced more than half the distance...(except for DPI).
This statement is only partially true, and that is why half the distance does NOT apply here.
10-2-6 specifically says a penalty can't be more than "half the distance from the enforcement spot to the
offending team’s goal line" (emphasis added). This penalty is committed by Team A, but moves the ball toward Team B's goal line. 10-2-6 does not apply here.
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LZ, you're right. I missed your post (in full) above.
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Ok... so this is a really really bizarre situation. But you have a PF on the try to enforce at the kickoff. And then you have a UNS after the try. Both enforced at the kickoff so now you're kicking from B-35. Then you have a holding by B during the onside kick that was recovered by B, so A accepts the penalty and re-kick. Now, from B-25.
They try another onside but the ball goes out of bounds at B-1
Now what? You can't have the 30 yard from the spot of the kick. Does that mean now we have to eliminate that option from the rulebook?
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Ok... so this is a really really bizarre situation. But you have a PF on the try to enforce at the kickoff. And then you have a UNS after the try. Both enforced at the kickoff so now you're kicking from B-35. Then you have a holding by B during the onside kick that was recovered by B, so A accepts the penalty and re-kick. Now, from B-25.
They try another onside but the ball goes out of bounds at B-1
Now what? You can't have the 30 yard from the spot of the kick. Does that mean now we have to eliminate that option from the rulebook?
Yes -- because you always have the other options of rekick or 5 yards from where it went OB.