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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: will27 on December 17, 2014, 04:50:46 PM
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1- Is the referee the only official that can call for a measurement?
2- Can players/coaches ask for a measurement?
3- Are measurements ever done on second downs?
Thanks.
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Answers from my training and experience below.
1- Is the referee the only official that can call for a measurement?
Yes, although others can request/advise the R (other crew members or either head coach).
2- Can players/coaches ask for a measurement?
Head coaches can request the R to measure, usually prior to the next RFP.
3- Are measurements ever done on second downs?
Yes - measurements are done whenever the ball is too close to the line-to-gain to call visually regardless of the next down at the discretion of the R.
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Can you measure on 2nd down? Yes. Should you measure on 2nd down? NO!
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Why not? What if it's close and you don't measure so they go for it and lose yardage and end up having to punt? The team may have just lost a new series because you decided you weren't going to measure based in what down it was. If it's close enough to measure on 3rd down, it's close enough to measure on 1st and 2nd.
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If the spot is close enough to measure on ANY down, you measure.
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A good linesman with a well marked field will not have that issue, it is not a good practice to be okay with measuring on 2nd down
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You should know exactly where the series started, really should never "need" a measurement. About as easy as it gets.
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You should know exactly where the series started, really should never "need" a measurement. About as easy as it gets.
Okay last two comments are just crazy and over state what happens on the field. You measure on any down when it is close and there is a question. Yes, I agree that if we start on the A33 and the ball isn't at the A43, then no need to measure. But, while we all strive to start a new series of downs on a yard line -- that is not always the case. Generally, when a team gets inside the 20, I am marking the ball where it is, not the next yard line. You have to earn your yards inside the red zone. So, runner gets first down at the +18 1/2 yard line, that is where we are starting the next series. If 2nd down is anyway between the 7 and 8 yard lines, and I think it is close, I am doing a measurement. First and goal is very different than 2nd and short. What is the next play is a sack, then an IC -- then a FG instead of 4 straight running plays.
We should not try to over control the game. We are there to administer the game. Measurements are in the book for a reason, and are not restricted by down. If the situation calls for it, take the time and do your job. There should be no "bonus points" because the crew didn't need to have a measurement.
Just my humble opinion.
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So, runner gets first down at the +18 1/2 yard line, that is where we are starting the next series. If 2nd down is anyway between the 7 and 8 yard lines, and I think it is close, I am doing a measurement.
I hope you got the yard lines mixed up in your example(hopefully this isn't routine for you during penalty enforcement). Start at the 18 1/2 going in, Team A only needs the 8 1/2. So, I'm hoping you still don't think that is close.
Regardless, you're saying you feel it is close enough for a measurement anytime you are within half a yard? If you can't tell you're short by half a yard you might want stay at the PeeWee level.
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When the start of the series is not on a marked line, even if you know that the line-to-gain has (not) been reached, it will not be obvious to everybody. I have found it best to measure in these situations, it makes game management much easier and with a competent crew it doesn't take that much time.
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Advice I've gotten from FBS referees has been remarkably consistent in this area, especially as far as officiating advice goes:
You never get in trouble measuring.
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You should know exactly where the series started, really should never "need" a measurement. About as easy as it gets.
How does that work when the spot is in the middle of a grass field between the hash marks and within an inch or two either way?
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It would be interesting to see how many measurements took place on 2nd down at the FBS level this year...my guess would be 0
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If you have a turf field you probably should never have a measurement if you start your series on a line (which you should do 99 times out of 100). Grass fields different story - especially if you don't have tick marks.
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If you have a turf field you probably should never have a measurement if you start your series on a line (which you should do 99 times out of 100). Grass fields different story - especially if you don't have tick marks.
Agree, grass is a whole 'nother animal.
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If you have a turf field you probably should never have a measurement if you start your series on a line (which you should do 99 times out of 100). Grass fields different story - especially if you don't have tick marks.
Agreed. That is what I was trying to convey before. I have declined requests for a measurement from a coach or player many times. "Coach, we started at the 27 and need to get to the 37 -- your not there. No measurement required." But, it is just wrong to say I will not do measurements on 2nd down, or any down. Game circumstances dictate what "should be done." Part of the is grass v. turf. Another part of that is time remaining in game and score. Another part of that is you should not be starting on a yard line inside the 20's. And what do you do with a close play when the play ends between the numbers and hash marks, on the LJ side of the field. If it looks very close -- you should measure -- on just about any down. Won't do it in a 44-0 ball game. But absolutely in a 7-0 ball game in the 1st quarter.
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Agreed. That is what I was trying to convey before. I have declined requests for a measurement from a coach or player many times. "Coach, we started at the 27 and need to get to the 37 -- your not there. No measurement required." But, it is just wrong to say I will not do measurements on 2nd down, or any down. Game circumstances dictate what "should be done." Part of the is grass v. turf. Another part of that is time remaining in game and score. Another part of that is you should not be starting on a yard line inside the 20's. And what do you do with a close play when the play ends between the numbers and hash marks, on the LJ side of the field. If it looks very close -- you should measure -- on just about any down. Won't do it in a 44-0 ball game. But absolutely in a 7-0 ball game in the 1st quarter.
If the ball is on the L's side like you said in the 1st quarter that would be the the chain side and pretty silly to measure...but to each his own
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Agreed. That is what I was trying to convey before. I have declined requests for a measurement from a coach or player many times. "Coach, we started at the 27 and need to get to the 37 -- your not there. No measurement required." But, it is just wrong to say I will not do measurements on 2nd down, or any down. Game circumstances dictate what "should be done." Part of the is grass v. turf. Another part of that is time remaining in game and score. Another part of that is you should not be starting on a yard line inside the 20's. And what do you do with a close play when the play ends between the numbers and hash marks, on the LJ side of the field. If it looks very close -- you should measure -- on just about any down. Won't do it in a 44-0 ball game. But absolutely in a 7-0 ball game in the 1st quarter.
I agree with this statement. I will add it is important to verify the length of the chains prior to the game. You don't want to bring out the chains when it's obviously short and have the chains show a first down.
Another good technique is for the wings to rule first down or not as they are getting the spot. As AB likes to say it's all an inexact science anyway. If you feel he reached the line to gain, make it obvious by spotting it on or over the line. If it's short, make it at least a half yard short. Don't spot 2 inches short of the line.
If you have a well lined field you shouldn't have to measure on 2nd down. If it's 3rd or 4th down and they are close but short, it's not a bad idea to measure to reinforce your decision.
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If the ball is on the L's side like you said in the 1st quarter that would be the the chain side and pretty silly to measure...
That is only applicable if you are working CCA mechanics.
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Yes this is correct
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As a wing, you should nail your spots from the G to the G on every down, you can't just turn it on and off as to when you are going to get a good spot. If you go into the game thinking you only have to get good spots when you are inside the 20's, you are going to miss a lot of spots.
The spot is where the spot is, if it is on a tick, it is on a tick, if its not.. oh well. If you work to be perfect all the time you will be closer to perfect when you have to be perfect, let the U make the decision if he wants to move it 3 inches to a tick.
Sure, be on a tick on long gains for first downs, but on plays that don't end well past the LTG make your spot the right spot.
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Sure, be on a tick on long gains for first downs, but on plays that don't end well past the LTG make your spot the right spot.
Doesn't that go directly against your whole "you should nail your spots from the G to the G on every down"??
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Not if you understand football and game management.
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Not if you understand football and game management.
Sweet
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Not if you understand football and game management.
brrrooooo did you even read what you wrote?
As a wing, you should nail your spots from the G to the G on every down, you can't just turn it on and off as to when you are going to get a good spot. If you go into the game thinking you only have to get good spots when you are inside the 20's, you are going to miss a lot of spots.
Sure, be on a tick on long gains for first downs, but on plays that don't end well past the LTG make your spot the right spot.
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First year guy is correct. Sure, it's in the rulebook, but so is every other foul that is guided by philosophy. Similarly, we would not want to have a measurement after a 1st or 2nd down. The philosophy I use and it's incumbent on the wings, is "either they made it, or they didn't." Obviously, 3rd and 4th downs are more critical, but having unnecessary measurements just because it's requested will lead to long games and is the sign of an ineffective game manager.
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pgh, just to get this straight. Assume a perfectly marked field.
2nd and 10 at B-26. A32 runs and is downed at about B-15.5 (obviously not on a yard line). Do you want the wings to spot the ball at B-15, B-16 or where the ball actually became dead?
If at the real dead ball spot, then this follows:
1st and 10 at B-15.5. A32 runs left towards the press box and is downed between the top of the number and the hash mark at around B-5.5. Do you measure? If not, is it a 1st and G or 2nd and inches?
If you do not measure, why would you guess the next down instead of measuring? Aren't you cheating either team A or team B?