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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Shoottv on January 02, 2015, 08:11:11 PM
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I've seen a lot written about letting equipment rules slide. I'm just curious how folks feel about this.
I've always been one to walk the teams and enforce equipment issues prior to the game. I have yet to have a player that couldn't correct his equipment issue. My crew says I can spot a bad mouthpiece at 30 yards. :-)
I feel that things like mouthpieces that are cut down and chewed beyond their useful life are a safety issue. I'd say that 90% of kids and most coaches don't know it's to keep the teeth apart to prevent concussion rather than to prevent getting teeth knocked out.
I also pull bicep/calf bands and because I had a girl badly dislocate a finger in some Zany bands years ago while reffing soccer.
This year we had a kid come out for a coin toss with no girdle or padding below the waist and I told the coach he couldn't play until it was corrected and caught flack for it from the coach.
The rest (playcards etc.) is in the book and I'll have them corrected prior to the game. I've never had to throw a flag for failure to wear proper equipment. Once we kick off, I throw about .6 fewer flags on average than most HL in my association.
Maybe I'm paranoid but I don't want some kid's lawyer dad taking my house because he had illegal equipment and I let him play and he got injured. I learned long ago that children are stupid which is why it is our job to take care of them. It's OK because with good luck they grow out of it into great adults.
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You're absolutely right. Establishing rules for player equipment (required, Optional, Prohibited) are created well above the "official's pay grade", and failure to abide by them creates an unnecessary exposure to extensive PERSONAL liability.
These issues are designed to be regulated at the "Team level", where control is far more applicable.
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This year we had a kid come out for a coin toss with no girdle or padding below the waist and I told the coach he couldn't play until it was corrected and caught flack for it from the coach.
What was the gist of the coach's flack?
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I enforce all of it. I try to correct it in the dressing rooms with the HC before the game; try to correct it again during the team warmups; and try to correct it prior to the coin toss with the captains. After that, I flag it against the player or HC depending on the equipment violation. Usually the first flag corrects everything. The enforcement of the uniform adornment/equipment issues cause more heartburn for our crew than any other because we enforce the rules as written and constantly hear that the crew last week said it was ok or it did not matter or it was not enforced. And the coaches complaints have merit, I grade films for the association and sadly we have many WHs without the nuts to enforce the rules.
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Good question, and one that would probably generate a lot more discussion of asked in August or September.
"Equipment Rules" is a broad subject, and I can't give a blanket answer to whether or not I enforce them. If they're safety related, I try to enforce them. By that I mean that I won't let a kid play without a butt pad, or with a mouthpiece that barely covers his front teeth. I also get rid of bicep and calf bands, and won't let kids play with play cards on their belts.
There are other Equipment Rules that I'm less likely to enforce. If A breaks the huddle and I notice that the snapper has a white towel on his waist and a wideout has a blue one, I let that go. Same with untucked jerseys, although i will remind them during time outs to tuck them in.
There are two Equipment issues that are particularly challenging in our area. The first is pants that don't cover the knee. You tell the kid to pull his pants down, and when he does, and while he's standing still, the pads cover the knee. As soon as he gets in a stance or takes off running, the pants rise up above the knee. Similar situation with back pads. In between plays, the back pad is covered, but as soon as the kid runs, blocks, or does anything similar, the back pad is flapping in the wind.
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Good question, and one that would probably generate a lot more discussion of asked in August or September.
"Equipment Rules" is a broad subject, and I can't give a blanket answer to whether or not I enforce them. If they're safety related, I try to enforce them. By that I mean that I won't let a kid play without a butt pad, or with a mouthpiece that barely covers his front teeth. I also get rid of bicep and calf bands, and won't let kids play with play cards on their belts.
There are other Equipment Rules that I'm less likely to enforce. If A breaks the huddle and I notice that the snapper has a white towel on his waist and a wideout has a blue one, I let that go. Same with untucked jerseys, although i will remind them during time outs to tuck them in.
There are two Equipment issues that are particularly challenging in our area. The first is pants that don't cover the knee. You tell the kid to pull his pants down, and when he does, and while he's standing still, the pads cover the knee. As soon as he gets in a stance or takes off running, the pants rise up above the knee. Similar situation with back pads. In between plays, the back pad is covered, but as soon as the kid runs, blocks, or does anything similar, the back pad is flapping in the wind.
Same here.
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Same here.
Thankfully don't see a lot of problems with knee pads, at least to the point of necessary replacement, but is this arule area, at the NFHS levels, worth ignorning? Liability (which at this highly visible circumstance is enormous) aside, considering God isn't quite finished building a lot of these still student athletes and the frequency of knee related problems experienced, is this a area to question rule enforcement?
Sadly, this is a rule generally ignored at higher levels, which is a constant negative reminder and inappropriate motivator for younger, invincible athletes, but are still our responsibility to enforce as decided WAY above our pay grade.
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Agree with my Floridian brother and Bamma.
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I try to take care of all equipment related rules prior to the start of the game. Our association absolutely enforces the ban on the muscle band on both the arms & legs. I see it as a safety issue and don't want to end up in court. As far as penalizing the infraction, I prefer to send the player off and have it corrected before they can play. As far as getting grief from a coach about it, a simple reminder that it is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against the head coach usually shuts it down.
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Fully agree, preventive officiating..catching it during your pregame walkthrough or before the player enters the the game is always the best; from both a safety and game administrative perspective. As we near President's Day, may I quote my fav from last century : " Trust but verify " (Ronnie to the Commies). To us, that translates to : "Coach, is everyone legally equipted" and then the walkthrough. tiphat:
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I try to take care of all equipment related rules prior to the start of the game. Our association absolutely enforces the ban on the muscle band on both the arms & legs. I see it as a safety issue and don't want to end up in court. As far as penalizing the infraction, I prefer to send the player off and have it corrected before they can play. As far as getting grief from a coach about it, a simple reminder that it is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against the head coach usually shuts it down.
The muscle bands on arms and legs are not safety issues. They are pliable enough that if someone gets and hand or finger caught up there will be plenty of give. Some of the use pre-wrap which rip if someone gets their hand hung up in them.
The reason why they are illegal in HS is they serve no purpose making them an adornment. Rather than having a list of extras allowed or not allowed, the NFHS rule lists the required equipment, a couple allowed items that require a purpose, and bans everything else. It's easier that way.
Personally I think it's a silly thing to enforce, but I do enforce it. I work college as well and it's nice to not have to worry about them.
The equipment issue I'm most concerned with is the back pads. There are some instances where the shirt rides up and the pad comes out, especially if the pad is low. But guys who intentionally wear tight shirts and pull it up over the back pad are obvious. I see too many games at higher levels that don't seem to enforce it. I never flag it, but I do ask players to cover them.
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The equipment issue I'm most concerned with is the back pads. There are some instances where the shirt rides up and the pad comes out, especially if the pad is low. But guys who intentionally wear tight shirts and pull it up over the back pad are obvious. I see too many games at higher levels that don't seem to enforce it. I never flag it, but I do ask players to cover them.
Ditto. We tell players to either cover them or leave the game.
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The rolled up pre-wrap below the knee actually has a function. Growing, adolescent boys can develop patella tendon pain and the band of pre-wrap helps to remedy the pain issue.
I never knew this until my son developed problems last year and the trainer had him do that. She then explained it to me.
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How about the solid white mouthpieces that cover the lips? This mouthpiece is readily visible to everyone, but it is completely white. What do you do with those?
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How about the solid white mouthpieces that cover the lips? This mouthpiece is readily visible to everyone, but it is completely white. What do you do with those?
I will let a kid play with one of those. One time (in youth ball - where else?) I had a coach complain. I had the other coach put a dot on the outside of the mouthpiece with his sharpie - now it's not solid white anymore.
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The rolled up pre-wrap below the knee actually has a function. Growing, adolescent boys can develop patella tendon pain and the band of pre-wrap helps to remedy the pain issue.
I never knew this until my son developed problems last year and the trainer had him do that. She then explained it to me.
What equipment rule does, "The rolled up pre-wrap below the knee" violate?
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What equipment rule does, "The rolled up pre-wrap below the knee" violate?
The one that does not allow adornments. It's not required or allowed equipment (thus making it an adornment) and 90% of the time the player is using it rather than the bicep/calf bands. It's not serving the purpose HLinNC states. If he tries to argue that I'm going to get with the trainer to get support, but it's likely not the reason in most cases.
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The one that does not allow adornments. It's not required or allowed equipment (thus making it an adornment) and 90% of the time the player is using it rather than the bicep/calf bands. It's not serving the purpose HLinNC states. If he tries to argue that I'm going to get with the trainer to get support, but it's likely not the reason in most cases.
This is the problem with relying on "language", or descriptions, without seeing what we are discussing. Is, "a rolled up pre-wrap below the knee" a "uniform adornment" (in which case it would be definitely illegal and must be removed) or is it a "knee an/or ankle brace that is unaltered (and) do not require any additional padding. (NFHS: 1-5-3-b-2-note). Checking with the Trainer (as well as the Umpire, for compliance with NFHS: 1-5-2) might well, be a smart idea.
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If the rolled up pre-wrap is positioned just below the knee cap at the base of the pant leg, then that is what it is for. Much cheaper than purchasing a tendon strap.
Why trouble trouble?