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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on June 08, 2015, 06:33:49 PM

Title: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: TXMike on June 08, 2015, 06:33:49 PM

Team A snapping at the 50 on 4th and 4.  Defense is confused and has 12 on the field. A - The 12th player is in formation making no attempt to leave but deep officials are not sure there were 12 until the ball is coming down after being kicked.  They flag. A downs the ball at the B-6.   or B - The 12 the player finally realizes he should be out and is halfway to the numbers when the ball is snapped. He continues off the field.  Deep officials were not sure of count until kicked ball is coming down.  They flag.  A downs the ball at B-6.

What is penalty enforcement in each situation?

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: dvasques on June 08, 2015, 08:12:47 PM

both would be live-ball fouls woudn't it? Guess I'd go with 3-5-3-c which states the penalty should be enforced from the previous spot. No other option on that penalty statement

or am I missing something?

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: Legacy Zebra on June 08, 2015, 08:26:20 PM

I think what TXMike is getting at is whether this should be a live or dead ball foul. If you're not sure until the ball is in play, especially until the punt is already coming down, I don't see how you can shut it down and make it a dead ball foul.

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: dvasques on June 08, 2015, 08:28:14 PM

Quote from: Legacy Zebra on June 08, 2015, 08:26:20 PM

I think what TXMike is getting at is whether this should be a live or dead ball foul. If you're not sure until the ball is in play, especially until the punt is already coming down, I don't see how you can shut it down and make it a dead ball foul.

I got it... I think I'd go with live ball because in A we missed the 12th during the dead ball, and in B the 12th is trying to get out of bounds but is caught by the snap

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: TXMike on June 08, 2015, 08:48:10 PM

Actually looking for enf spot...PSKE or prev spot

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: Legacy Zebra on June 08, 2015, 09:07:50 PM

Then dvasques got it the first time. 3-5-3-c specifies that it is a previous spot foul. Since it was 4th and 4, Team A now has 1st and 10 at the B-45.

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: TXMike on June 08, 2015, 09:17:40 PM

2015 CFO PreSeason Video Scrimmage Infractions-Play 14  (last year's Alamo Bowl)

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: dvasques on June 08, 2015, 09:20:42 PM

I knew I had seen that... I thought it was weird while I watched the video. And Redding makes no comment about that enforcement

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: Kalle on June 09, 2015, 03:04:41 AM

The foul happens at the snap so it does not occur during the kick. Thus it can't be a PSKE, so previous spot only.

Title: Re: Pen Enf on Punt
Post by: TXMike on June 09, 2015, 04:42:09 AM

https://youtu.be/mwPy_RnENjU

Went back and looked at my recording of the game...appears the crew discussed during the TV break and reversed the enforcement.  KSU took the 5 yards from prev spot and ran a play on 4th down replay (making a 1st).