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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: younggun on September 10, 2015, 02:05:58 PM
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I ask this play situation (when reviewing this question review the definition of succeeding spot.)
ART. 10 . . . The succeeding spot is where the ball would next be snapped or free kicked if a foul had not occurred. When a foul occurs during a down in which a touchdown is scored, as in Rules 8-2-2, 8-2-3, 8-2-4 and 8-2-5, the succeeding spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the subsequent kickoff.
During a free kick, K8 kicks the ball deep to R7 who catches the ball on the R-3. During the kick K45 blocks R34 at the knees at the R-40. During the run R24 holds at the R-20. R7 is down at the 50. During the play the 'U' runs into a member of K's coaching staff on the SL. Ruling? Options?
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Also: Art. 8 – Unintentional contact with a game official in the restricted area – (S38-29), . Nonplayer foul. For the first offense, 15 yards from the succeeding spot. For the second offense (S38-29-47) – 15 yards from the succeeding spot and disqualification of the head coach. Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 – Disqualification also if any fouls under these articles are judged by the game official to be flagrant – (S47).
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I'll give the ole college try.
R received the ball with clean hands. In order to keep the ball they need to decline the penalty by K. K would accept the penalty by R. The penalty would be half the distance from the 20 (10 yard line). The 15 yard US penalty on K would walked off and it would be first and 10 for R from the 25 yd. line.
R could accept the penalty by K and the live ball penalties would offset the down would be replayed but not prior to the 15 yard US penalty being walked off from the original line of scrimmage, K's ball.
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This touches on the conversation we've had many times about the NFHS code and "live ball fouls treated as dead ball fouls."
We've got 2 live ball fouls and a "live ball foul treated as a dead ball foul" even though that language doesnt exist in the NFHS book.
R can either accept or decline the BBW. If accepted then 10-2-1-c makes this a double foul and the succeeding spot would be the K40. Enforce UNS and K rekicks from the K25.
Or R can decline and keep the ball under 10-3. Hold behind the basic spot will be enforced from the spot (R20). Succeeding spot is the R10. Enforce UNS and we have R 1-10 @ R25.
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I agree 100% but the definition of succeeding spot says otherwise.
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If in one of the options we are to re-kick for example. This does not meet the definition of the succeeding spot. Thus you have no where to enforce the foul on the coach.
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In your example the thing to remember is that when you say "succeeding spot is where the ball would next be snapped or free kicked if a foul had not occurred" you are talking about the UNS. If the UNS hadn't occurred we would free kick from the R40 because of the double foul (or enforce from the R10 in the case of R wanting to keep the ball)
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And that is why I think there needs to be an editorial change. Not use the verbiage 'a foul' but change it to 'the foul'. With 'a foul' makes it sound like it is talking about if any foul happened during the play.
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Gun,
Your point is well taken regarding the written verbiage of the rule. yEs: The foul they refer to should say live ball foul. This is a case of needing to understand the intent of the rule so that the verbiage may be deciphered. :!#
The Cubs lost a heartbreaker yesterday to the Birds on a Bat. The Phils are up next on the playoff march.
Cubbies and Red Sox in a future World Series. ^good
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I see your line of thinking. I think they key part you're missing is that the only fouls that have succeeding spot enforcement are "dead ball" fouls. (Ignoring 10-4-5-d since in your example there was no touchback.)
If it were anything else, we wouldn't be talking about enforcing from the succeeding spot.